Whats the correct call??

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by marker303

Happen in a game that I coached in last night and I am not sure of the call. LL game, we are visitor - home is at bat with 2 outs, runner at 3rd in an extra innings with a tie ball game. Batter hits ball to SS, SS throws to 1st and the Base Ump calls runner at 1st out. Runner on 3rd is going on contact and goes home, 1st doesn't throw home until after the fact becasue he hears out at 1st is called. Home team appeals the out at 1st call, says 1st left the bag early. Base ump asks for help from Plate ump, plate ump calls runner at 1st safe and then calls runner to home safe run scores game over. Is that the right call??? Most of my team was headed to the dugout to hit when the 3rd out was called. Is the ball dead after the 3rd out is called and runners remain at 1st & 3rd??

Are you trying to say the runner on third should stay there until he finds out what the result at first is going to be. There was no out at third it got reversed. Think about what your asking here because it doesn't make sense in terms of the rules of the game you are coaching.

[umpjim]

You are trying to make a case for F3 throwing home to get R3 if the original call was Safe at 1B. Total umpire discretion in deciding how to fix a changed call. I'm thinking a throw from F3 after trying for the out at 1B probably would not get R3. I guess so did your umps.

[marker303]

@ mbyron - Thanks for the response. Your understanding is correct, can you explain the call in a little more detail for my education. I assumed because the 3rd out was called, inning over. I understand they can appeal the call, just not sure of the deal at home. Also it appeared to me F3 made the play, so I truly thought we had the 3rd out.

@ JICECONE - NO, I am not saying R3 should not have run, with 2 outs my guy would have been running too. We had a 3rd out call at 1st, so there was really no need to have a play at the plate. Are you saying after we got the 3rd out we should have gotten a 4th out at home just incase the out at 1st gets reversed?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by marker303

Are you saying after we got the 3rd out we should have gotten a 4th out at home just in case the out at 1st gets reversed?

If there was ANY doubt in F3's mind (and he knows when there's a possible pulled foot, dropped or bobbled ball, etc) he should throw home. Can't hurt. Heck ... if it's a close play, I (as coach) want him throwing home anyway and not looking to the umpire for his call first.

[marker303]

@ mbcrowder - thanks for the response, very hepful. I am coaching 9's & 10's and am learning the fine points of the game.

Thanks to all the helpful responses, wanting to become a better coach for my players and I figured understanding a call will help me manage my team better. Thanks again.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by marker303

@ mbyron - Thanks for the response. Your understanding is correct, can you explain the call in a little more detail for my education. I assumed because the 3rd out was called, inning over. I understand they can appeal the call, just not sure of the deal at home. Also it appeared to me F3 made the play, so I truly thought we had the 3rd out.

If the 3rd out is recorded, then the inning is over. But the 3rd out was never recorded, since the umpire changed the initial call. That might be unfortunate for you but, assuming they got it right in the end, it's the right call.

Technically this is not an appeal, though everyone refers to it as that. The point is that the BU is using all the info available to him to get the call right, including PU's better angle on the foot touching the base.

My preferred mechanic here, if I'm BU and not sure whether he held the base, is to go to my partner first, before making a call. "Did he have the base?" "Yes/no" "Then he's out/safe!" Some prefer to make their own call first and then get help. You'll find advocates of both mechanics.

As for your judgment that F3 held the base: of course you did. When I'm a fan, I too see what I want to see. We are all biased when we root, which is why the game requires umpires. I will also say I'm impressed you've got 2 umpires for 10U.

Interesting thought: what do folks think about this. If the BU had initially called BR safe for F3 coming off the bag, would it have been easier and less controversial to correct back to an out/no score if that had been necessary?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Interesting thought: what do folks think about this. If the BU had initially called BR safe for F3 coming off the bag, would it have been easier and less controversial to correct back to an out/no score if that had been necessary?

Absolutely no. If he called safe, then he called safe for a reason. He wouldn't need help at that point.