Foul Tip in Dirt

[nafxos]

Thanks for the feedback.

I did make a "thanks for putting me on the spot" comment to my partner after the game, but I said it with a smile. At the time, I wasn't certain if he had screwed up or if it was something I should have been more ready for. And he had 10 years of experience to my 1, so I probably erred too much on the side of deferring to him.

As for the actual call, I rang the batter up. Strike 3. Game over. Nobody on the offense complained, so I think I got it right.

And I'm still not going to call too many check-swing appeals as strikes from B or C, especially if the batter has his back to me. If the PU didn't think it was a swing, it's not like I have a better view.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nafxos

Thanks for the feedback.

I did make a "thanks for putting me on the spot" comment to my partner after the game, but I said it with a smile. At the time, I wasn't certain if he had screwed up or if it was something I should have been more ready for. And he had 10 years of experience to my 1, so I probably erred too much on the side of deferring to him.

As for the actual call, I rang the batter up. Strike 3. Game over. Nobody on the offense complained, so I think I got it right.

And I'm still not going to call too many check-swing appeals as strikes from B or C, especially if the batter has his back to me. If the PU didn't think it was a swing, it's not like I have a better view.

As someone with 25 years of experience, let me tell you that you're completely wrong. You can make the same judgment from B or C as the plate guy can behind the plate. You have a few advantages -- there's no chance you're going to be blocked and you don't have a pitch to track.

The mindset of not calling a swing from the middle is very old school and most good umpires have discarded it. If you judge that the batter offered (and I still suggest you use your first instinct), go with it. Why penalize the defense because you don't want to make that call?

[nafxos]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

As someone with 25 years of experience, let me tell you that you're completely wrong. You can make the same judgment from B or C as the plate guy can behind the plate. You have a few advantages -- there's no chance you're going to be blocked and you don't have a pitch to track.

The mindset of not calling a swing from the middle is very old school and most good umpires have discarded it. If you judge that the batter offered (and I still suggest you use your first instinct), go with it. Why penalize the defense because you don't want to make that call?

I'll think about it. I have a hard time believing I can get a good look at a lefthanded batter's check swing from B. Or a righhander from C. But I'm open to the idea.

That said, I do remember in my certification class a veteran ump making it pretty clear that 99 times out of 100 you shouldn't overturn your partner's "no swing" call from B or C.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nafxos

I'll think about it. I have a hard time believing I can get a good look at a lefthanded batter's check swing from B. Or a righhander from C. But I'm open to the idea.

You'd be surprised. Righty from D or lefty from A, and I get your point... but B and C are perfectly good locations to determine whether the batter offered or not. And you do not have 12 things all happening at once to worry about like PU does.

That said, I do remember in my certification class a veteran ump making it pretty clear that 99 times out of 100 you shouldn't overturn your partner's "no swing" call from B or C.

I completely believe that. And the fact that he called it "overturning" tells me volumes about his mentality. You are not "overturning" anything. You are answering your partner's request for help. As your partner, if I request your help, I'm expecting to get your help, and not just going through the motions for appearances sake.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by nafxos

And I'm still not going to call too many check-swing appeals as strikes from B or C, especially if the batter has his back to me. If the PU didn't think it was a swing, it's not like I have a better view.

You may not have a view to see the barrel of the bat in relation to the batter's body but that is only one method that may be used to determine if a batter offered. It is actually not that difficult to tell from inside whether or not a batter offered at a pitch because what you are judging is if he made an attempt or not. That's it.

Originally Posted by nafxos

That said, I do remember in my certification class a veteran ump making it pretty clear that 99 times out of 100 you shouldn't overturn your partner's "no swing" call from B or C.

That's terrible advice and I would discard it immediately.

[nafxos]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That's terrible advice and I would discard it immediately.

Thanks.

It hasn't even come up in a live game yet. But I'll make sure I stick with calling what I see when asked.

[BestUmp]

Call what you see. Enjoy yourself out there!

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by nafxos

I'll think about it. I have a hard time believing I can get a good look at a lefthanded batter's check swing from B. Or a righhander from C. But I'm open to the idea.

That said, I do remember in my certification class a veteran ump making it pretty clear that 99 times out of 100 you shouldn't overturn your partner's "no swing" call from B or C.

We older farts here have a saying "If you can't call a check swing from either infield position, don't bother going on the field!". There is no, let me repeat, NO reason an umpire cannot call a check swing from B or C. If an umpire has a problem with this, he/she needs some serious re-training.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nafxos

And I'm still not going to call too many check-swing appeals as strikes from B or C, especially if the batter has his back to me. If the PU didn't think it was a swing, it's not like I have a better view.

Please don't make this your default position. You will find 25-year guys who will tell you that's how they call, but this mentality has gone by the wayside. You DO have a better view. If partner asks, make your best judgement call. Period. Granted - if you're not sure, they didn't swing. But if you think they swung, and are asked, then they swung.

PS - welcome to the board. I want to add this - I currently work in an association the brought in about 10 rookies this year. ONE of them reads this board - and that is the one that will likely make it in the long run. It shows you care and it shows you want to learn.

[kylejt]

On a dropped third strike, I've got a pre-set signal if I think the ball was caught or not. I use a closed fist, if caught, or open hand, if not, right at my belt buckle. It's just some discrete help for the PU, if he chooses to use it.

On a foul ball in the dirt, that the PU didn't call, I've got to be 100%. If I am, I'm going to kill it. If I didn't kill it, don't bother asking me.