Dale Scott calls a ball foul then fair

[SAump]

Here are some interesting facts about the play and, more important, the last paragraph is the response from MLB.

Dodgers turn first 2-5-6-3 triple play in history but Padres cry foul over umpire?s actions | Big League Stew - Yahoo! Sports

The ball kicks off the left side of the plate which is over fair territory. While I believe the ball is foul, it is difficult to tell if the ball rolled off the left side of the plate into foul territory inches away from the left side of the plate. Looking at the play, F2 straddles the plate and picks the ball up in front of his right foot which is over foul territory. Is this a foul ball? Perhaps an overhead view from the camera, if one exists, would be more definitive. Does anyone here think the ball is in front of the plate?

[jicecone]

"At no time did the umpire verbally kill the play on the field." Quote MLB

Which means:

HE DIDN'T SAY NUTTIN!

[David B]

Originally Posted by jicecone

"At no time did the umpire verbally kill the play on the field." Quote MLB

Which means:

HE DIDN'T SAY NUTTIN!

I think that's something that I can learn from and certainly others too. Hand motions are important part of what we do; however, the verbal communication is the determining factor. It's nice to see that verbalized by MLB.

In reading the article, I like what F2 said about learning to make the plays etc., that's what they have been taught since HS.

I also like what Jeff said about the players really reacting to the batter and not the umpire. Once they did that, and F2 followed through with the play, they were toast.

Thanks
David

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by David B

...however, the verbal communication is the determining factor. It's nice to see that verbalized by MLB.
David

But they didn't say that. In fact the statement avoids saying what it takes to call time. It does however acknowledge that the mechanic was incorrect.

[tmagan]

I guess from now on, continue running even after the umpire raises both hands because you never know if the umpire is going to say 'I really didn't mean it'.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by jicecone

"At no time did the umpire verbally kill the play on the field." Quote MLB

Which means:

HE DIDN'T SAY NUTTIN!

Doug Eddings would be proud.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

But they didn't say that. In fact the statement avoids saying what it takes to call time. It does however acknowledge that the mechanic was incorrect.

Not to belabor a point; however, he did state in his comments that

"At no time did the umpire verbally kill the play on the field.",

Just my inferences from that statement is where I made my conclusions.

Might not be right, but I'm stickin to it ....

Thanks
David

[MikeStrybel]

How many calls do we see signalled but not verbalized? Watch an MLB contest sometime and you may be surprised.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

How many calls do we see signalled but not verbalized? Watch an MLB contest sometime and you may be surprised.

Every can of corn. Every non-close play at first. Even many swinging strike threes. I think that's what irks me with this play. It's clear that the mechanics mean something. Yet they are being ignored here, when clearly those mechanics put a team in jeopardy.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by jicecone

If your suggesting that it aint nutting until the umpire calls it,

YOUR DAM RIGHT.

Even my weinersnouser knows dat.

You're right. I AM saying that. I'm saying that signaling "dead ball" is the same as calling "dead ball" which is the same as when a batter swings and misses at strike three and the PU merely signals the "strike/out" is the same as calling "strike three" without saying "Steeeriiiike Three, Batter's Out!!"

To borrow from the late Mike Wallace, "C'mon!"

Look, we're in the communication business. Our mechanics are a major part of our communication. Dale Scott called a "dead ball/foul ball" once he signaled such.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

You're right. I AM saying that. I'm saying that signaling "dead ball" is the same as calling "dead ball" which is the same as when a batter swings and misses at strike three and the PU merely signals the "strike/out" is the same as calling "strike three" without saying "Steeeriiiike Three, Batter's Out!!"

To borrow from the late Mike Wallace, "C'mon!"

Look, we're in the communication business. Our mechanics are a major part of our communication. Dale Scott called a "dead ball/foul ball" once he signaled such.

Who calls "dead ball"? It's either "FOUL" or "TIME". This isn't softball.

[gordon30307]

I take comfort in the fact that the best of the best screw up. Hey we're all human and make mistakes. Good calls or bad calls there just part of the game. When I get yelled at for my call of a wacker at first or a call I make on a pitch I remind myself the guys in the Show get yelled at as well and I put it behind me.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Every can of corn. Every non-close play at first. Even many swinging strike threes.

You forgot every fair batted ball. In fact, the mechanics are to not say anything.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Every can of corn. Every non-close play at first. Even many swinging strike threes. I think that's what irks me with this play. It's clear that the mechanics mean something. Yet they are being ignored here, when clearly those mechanics put a team in jeopardy.

Your right Mike mechanics mean a lot and we are not ignoring this but, of all the people here jumping all over this, Baseball Umpires should know more than ANYONE, S#it happens and can relate personnaly to things like this.

Ever blow a call, start to make a safe signal and realize the runner is out, call a balk that wasn't, a foul ball that wasn't, fail to call batter interference, obstruction, miss a pitch, etc etc etc.

How many of those did you go back and change because everyone thought you should?

Yea, maybe the fact that the umpire didn't say "Time" or "Dead Ball" is a weak argument but, for those that can't accept that, how about "**** Happens" even at that level and move on.

I have seen dialogue frrom suspend these officials to throw them out of the league and everything else under the sun in articles and public forums. I come to this forum and think that maybe we just might have an understanding what transpired from our own experience and low and behold we have all the holier than thou officials who are acting like the new bride wearing white, getting married for the 7th time. If the players maintained or even came close to the perfection level of the officials, it would be a boring GAME.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Your right Mike mechanics mean a lot and we are not ignoring this but, of all the people here jumping all over this, Baseball Umpires should know more than ANYONE, S#it happens and can relate personnaly to things like this.

Ever blow a call, start to make a safe signal and realize the runner is out, call a balk that wasn't, a foul ball that wasn't, fail to call batter interference, obstruction, miss a pitch, etc etc etc.

How many of those did you go back and change because everyone thought you should?

Yea, maybe the fact that the umpire didn't say "Time" or "Dead Ball" is a weak argument but, for those that can't accept that, how about "**** Happens" even at that level and move on.

I have seen dialogue frrom suspend these officials to throw them out of the league and everything else under the sun in articles and public forums. I come to this forum and think that maybe we just might have an understanding what transpired from our own experience and low and behold we have all the holier than thou officials who are acting like the new bride wearing white, getting married for the 7th time. If the players maintained or even came close to the perfection level of the officials, it would be a boring GAME.

Well, you started out defending the call and stating that he didn't call Time or Foul, even after you saw the MLB video. Are you now willing to say that by emphatically throwing both hands far above his head, he was in effect killing the ball in this case, and therefore had no business changing his call to a fair ball, and thereby causing a triple play that never should have been? When the runners saw him signal, they correctly surmised that the ball was no longer alive for some reason, and did not need to continue the play.

Sure, we have all screwed the pooch in similar fashion in one way or the other occasionally, but we usually own up to it, not alibi and cover it up with the backing of three other umpires to perpetrate the fraud. We say, "I messed up, I'll bear down harder next time," or some words of contrition. The fact that all four umpires huddled up, and then tried to sell a bill of goods that the ball magically became alive again, after being clearly signaled dead, was not being forthright and honest. By saying, "At no time did the umpire verbally kill the play on the field," they are saying, "Hey, you are all a bunch of idiots, and you didn't see what your eyes tell you that you saw." Once Scott threw his hands up to the sky like he was going to shout, "Hallelujah," he should have sold the Foul call for all it was worth.