Fisrt Aid training for Umpires?

[MikeStrybel]

Alright, it appears that we have gotten where I had not intended. I love seeing cbfoulds post here. Thank you for the expertise. Most states have Good Samaritan provisions - IOW, if you act in a way to help, your liability is limited or dismissed. It's difficult to hurt someone who isn't breathing and/or their heart is stopped. Do whatever helps you sleep better at night.

As for the question of how I can work CPR or administer first aid in a WV and shin guards, it's easy. I became a PADI Master Scuba Instructor years ago. I have had the occassion to perform CPR in full gear, WHILE in the water. You do what you need to do. I have had to give emergency care while still in my wetsuit, BCD and tank while in a cinfined boat, too. If a fireman (politically incorrect, I realize) can do it in full turn outs, so can I in my less cumbersome WV and shinguards.

The advice about allowing experts step in is terrific. However, we don't all have the luxury of working ball in places with trainers and quick ambulance service. I know umpires who carry extra equipment and uniforms as a precaution. It seems like a short leap to learn a life saving skill, just in case, as well.

As a close, I lost a good friend to a heart attack a few years ago. He was dressed in his plate gear and the game was just getting ready to go when he had a heart attack. Scott died far too young.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

You really are asking two, related but separate; questions:

What First Aid or CPR training should an umpire have? - AND -

What liability issues are there if Umpire uses such training?

I am currently a CPR instructor and umpire. As much as I want to help, my first duty as the umpire in a game is to make sure the emergency medical response is initiated. This response will likely consist of one or two well-rested, hydrated and maybe even professional responders, with small kit of equipment. The best assistance I can offer to them is to keep gawkers away from them and make sure the ambulance is on the way.

If there is only one person who can provide emergency treatment, then after I have done the other duties (assigned coaches to phone in the emergency and keep gawkers at bay) I will announce my training to that person and offer my assistance. Chest compressions can tire even a well-rested athletic person, and they need to be maintained until paramedics arrive.

I've got no patience for a parent OR officials board member who would jump on a trained CPR provider, if the assistance was done properly.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You guys have both umpires dressed in plate gear out your way? Weird.

It looks ridiculous wearing ball bags and brushing off the bases without full plate gear, so I just suit up all the way.

[Publius]

Will somebody delete this thread before a representative of my state association sees it and decides it would be a good idea as a condition of registration?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I disagree. If everyone on the field had this attitude, then when poor Johnny trips over himself sliding, you'd have every single adult at the field just staring at him refusing to help. That's absurd. You may not want, as umpire, to jump in on a routine case - but the coaches who DO jump in would be (and should be) treated as Good Samaritans if that is applicable in your area.

In my case, I have been trained to give emergency care. While my license was active (I've let it lapse), my only legal obligation in an emergency (that I wasn't called to for my job) was to call 9-1-1, and anything above that fell under my certification. Because of this, if I did something wrong, Good Samaritan would not help me at all. For someone who is CPR certified, Good Samaritan will not protect you if you do something above your level of training or if you do it incorrectly.

My point is that helping someone without proper training and using "Good Samaritan" to back up your assistance won't always help.

Again, I don't want to make this a legal thread.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by yawetag

In my case, I have been trained to give emergency care. While my license was active (I've let it lapse), my only legal obligation in an emergency (that I wasn't called to for my job) was to call 9-1-1, and anything above that fell under my certification. Because of this, if I did something wrong, Good Samaritan would not help me at all. For someone who is CPR certified, Good Samaritan will not protect you if you do something above your level of training or if you do it incorrectly.

My point is that helping someone without proper training and using "Good Samaritan" to back up your assistance won't always help.

Again, I don't want to make this a legal thread.

Then don't: 'cause your legal advice: "For someone who is CPR certified, Good Samaritan will not protect you if you do something above your level of training or if you do it incorrectly." - is incorrect in at least 3 jurisdictions [where I am licensed], and I suspect probably more. I admit to knowing nothing about the law where you live.

Ultimately, I think Mike said it best: do what lets you sleep well at night.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by yawetag

In my case, I have been trained to give emergency care. While my license was active (I've let it lapse), my only legal obligation in an emergency (that I wasn't called to for my job) was to call 9-1-1, and anything above that fell under my certification. Because of this, if I did something wrong, Good Samaritan would not help me at all. For someone who is CPR certified, Good Samaritan will not protect you if you do something above your level of training or if you do it incorrectly.

My point is that helping someone without proper training and using "Good Samaritan" to back up your assistance won't always help.

Again, I don't want to make this a legal thread.

Andrew, you may want to check your state law. Missouri law Chapter 537.037 (2) states:

"2. Any other person who has been trained to provide first aid in a standard recognized training program may, without compensation, render emergency care or assistance to the level for which he or she has been trained, at the scene of an emergency or accident, and shall not be liable for civil damages for acts or omissions other than damages occasioned by gross negligence or by willful or wanton acts or omissions by such person in rendering such emergency care."

Here in Illinois, we are not held liable for administering ordinary emergency care.

(745 ILCS 49/67)
Sec. 67. First aid providers; exemption for first aid. Any person who is currently certified in first aid by the American Red Cross, the American Heart Association, or the National Safety Council and who in good faith provides first aid without fee to any person shall not, as a result of his or her acts or omissions, except willful and wanton misconduct on the part of the person in providing the aid, be liable to a person to whom such aid is provided for civil damages.

As you noted, if I were to do something that I knew to be harmful then I would lose protection. CB could clarify what willful and wanton mean exactly - legal semantics give me headaches - but I read that to mean that I deliberately acted to hurt the person. I don't see this as an issue for me. Most of us who sought the training want to help when we can. We teach in PADI, when in doubt, always ask, "I am an emergency first responder, can I help you?"

The statute regarding those who aren't trained but still offer ordinary help has already been cited. They too are protected in Illinois. I hope they are in your state as well.

Go get recertified, you never know when you'll need it and the techniques are constantly changing. Best of luck.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

As you noted, if I were to do something that I knew to be harmful then I would lose protection.

It can also include attempting procedures you've never been trained to do, which is my point. If you're going to help a kid with a possible spinal injury after a collision and that "help" injures him, Good Samaritan isn't going to cover you.

[MikeStrybel]

Sure they will. I have been trained in how to stabilize spinal cord injuries, broken bones, sprains, etc. I teach the program to our rescue dive candidates and know it well. Most other emergency first response training includes such instruction. Good Sam laws protect us from liability WHEN a person claims our help injured them.

Help when you can and limit it to your scope of ability. The laws I cited protect us when we do. That is sound advice for those who don't work in areas with immediate emergency care available and even those of us who do.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yawetag

In my case, I have been trained to give emergency care. While my license was active (I've let it lapse), my only legal obligation in an emergency (that I wasn't called to for my job) was to call 9-1-1, and anything above that fell under my certification. Because of this, if I did something wrong, Good Samaritan would not help me at all. For someone who is CPR certified, Good Samaritan will not protect you if you do something above your level of training or if you do it incorrectly.

My point is that helping someone without proper training and using "Good Samaritan" to back up your assistance won't always help.

Again, I don't want to make this a legal thread.

If true (and what you say is NOT true here, but I'm no lawyer), that really sucks that they would create a law so that the person who is MOST likely to be able to help in a situation like this is legally unable to help. Rather dumb, that.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If true (and what you say is NOT true here, but I'm no lawyer), that really sucks that they would create a law so that the person who is MOST likely to be able to help in a situation like this is legally unable to help. Rather dumb, that.

That law states that unless you go out of your general level of training or act with gross negligence, then the person cannot be held liable.

They don't want someone trained in CPR trying to reset a dislocated shoulder (out of the area of training).

They don't want someone trained in CPR jumping up and down on the chest of someone who passed out (gross negligence).

[MikeStrybel]

I am fairly certain that we've stated this all along. Do what you can - help where you can. But even the untrained are protected under our Good Sam laws for trying to help - from CPR to the Heimlich manuever. If you can receive consent to offer help, all the better.

Even if you never use it on the field, emergency response training is still good to know for your family and loved ones. Who knows, maybe one of you will save a life and give all of us umpires a better name!