Lil' League Pitching rule 8.01(a)(2)

[thumpferee]

From the windup position, with a runner on third, pitcher can step and throw to third?

I'm assuming from "the windup position" means he is in contact with the pitcher's plate.

I'm confused here because, rule clearly states, "step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick off a runner". But, 8.01(a) states:

From this position any natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter commits the pitcher to pitch without interruption or alteration. The pitcher shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in the actual delivery of the ball to the batter.


Please shed some light on this rule please!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by thumpferee
From the windup position, with a runner on third, pitcher can step and throw to third?

Yes.

I'm assuming from "the windup position" means he is in contact with the pitcher's plate.

Good assumption.

I'm confused here because, rule clearly states, "step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick off a runner".

Seems clear enough

But, 8.01(a) states:

From this position any natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter commits the pitcher to pitch without interruption or alteration. The pitcher shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in the actual delivery of the ball to the batter.

The whole paragraph is talking about the delivery of a pitch. IF it's a throw to a base, or to step off the rubber, obviously the restrictions on "lifting the foot" don't apply.

(Oh yeah -- I answered this for OBR -- LL might have a different take -- but I doubt it in this case.)

[thumpferee]

Bob, by lifting the foot to throw to a base, isn't that a

"natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter commits the pitcher to pitch without interruption or alteration. The pitcher shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in the actual delivery of the ball to the batter".

Why ever pitch from the stretch then? There seems to be no restrictions on the pitcher from the stretch or wind-up with runners on base.

When I was coming up, pitching from the wind-up committed you to pitch to the batter, unless of course you stepped off rubber and went into the stretch.

I'm curious why I never see the Pro's take advantage of this.

ex: R1 on third, pitcher in wind-up position, lift leg as though to pitch to batter, throw to third to pick off runner. hmmmmmm

[Rich Ives]

by lifting the foot to throw to a base, isn't that a

"natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter . . ?

You can't step & throw without lifting your foot. Throwing to a base from wind-up is legal.

Why ever pitch from the stretch then?

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from set.

When I was coming up, pitching from the wind-up committed you to pitch to the batter

High school rules require this. Pro rules do not.

I'm curious why I never see the Pro's take advantage of this.

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from set.

ex: R1 on third, pitcher in wind-up position, lift leg as though to pitch to batter, throw to third to pick off runner. hmmmmmm

Then it becomes a balk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Bob, by lifting the foot to throw to a base, isn't that a

"natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter commits the pitcher to pitch without interruption or alteration.

One way to interpret this (although probably not accurate 100% of the time) is:

"natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball to the batter AND NOT ALSO ASSOCIATED WITH THE NORMAL MOVEMENT TO THROW TO A BASE commits the pitcher ..."

It's not a whole lot different from the motion where the LH pitcher from the set lifts the leg -- he can (absent any other movement) either pitch or throw to first from this point.

[thumpferee]

Rich, you say,

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from set.

Not if pitcher can just lift leg and deliver pitch without first taking one step back during wind-up. It seems to me that:

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from the wind-up.

But, what do I know, I only pitched for 12 years.

Thank You for your responses!

[chris s]

Hey guys, never seen a throw to a bag from the wind up, but....say we got a righty on the hill, wind-up.He steps to third with left foot, doing so (in my crazy head) it appears to simulate a delivery to the batter. His non-pivot foot is crossing his body and appears to be the start of a pitch. Try it with right foot, thats gonna look so funky even the rokkiests of rooks will nail em.....Food for thought

[Rich Ives]

Not if pitcher can just lift leg and deliver pitch without first taking one step back during wind-up.

Seems to me that from set you are already turned, but from windup, even with no rocker step, you have to add the turn time (or risk the results of an all-arm pitch).

[thumpferee]

Seems to me that from set you are already turned, but from windup, even with no rocker step, you have to add the turn time (or risk the results of an all-arm pitch).
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Rich Ives

Go try it. Stand on mound in wind-up position, lift leg straight up and then try to TURN on pivot foot putting pivot foot in hole in front of mound as in stretch position and try to pitch.
You'll break your ankle. Why would you have to turn?

The reason for my last post was,

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from the wind-up.

NOT, "risk the results of an all-arm pitch".

Plus, it's less movement than from the stretch. Stupid me, I always thought it was because the pitcher was limited on what he was allowed to do from the wind-up vs the stretch.

I think the original purpose to my posted question is lost here.

But I think I have the answer I was looking for. I am with you Chris s, I have never seen a pitcher throw to a base while in the wind-up position while on the rubber, and if I do......THAT'S A BALK!!

[chris s]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Seems to me that from set you are already turned, but from windup, even with no rocker step, you have to add the turn time (or risk the results of an all-arm pitch).
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Rich Ives

Go try it. Stand on mound in wind-up position, lift leg straight up and then try to TURN on pivot foot putting pivot foot in hole in front of mound as in stretch position and try to pitch.
You'll break your ankle. Why would you have to turn?

The reason for my last post was,

The elapsed time of movement to the plate is much shorter from the wind-up.

NOT, "risk the results of an all-arm pitch".

Plus, it's less movement than from the stretch. Stupid me, I always thought it was because the pitcher was limited on what he was allowed to do from the wind-up vs the stretch.

I think the original purpose to my posted question is lost here.

But I think I have the answer I was looking for. I am with you Chris s, I have never seen a pitcher throw to a base while in the wind-up position while on the rubber, and if I do......THAT'S A BALK!!

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Especially in FED, step and throw from wind-up is not legal. If anybody has some video of this move, I'd love to see it. I just don't see it possible. Step and throw to first from wind-up, yea, never seen it, but it is legal and possible, for a righty. But, how many dumb coaches are having thier F1's toss from wind-up with runners on??

[Whowefoolin]

Picking off a runner from the wind-up will never be done. First of all the pitcher goes to the wind-up conceding the pick-off play.

If he was thinking pick off, he would go to the stretch.

Now if the pitcher is in the wind-up position, and he is going to pick someone off, the he better do it with out any preliminary move.

[thumpferee]

Does anyone actually read previously posted threads, or just type whatever comes to mind?

My original post was, Lil' League Pitching rule 8.01(a)(2).

NOT FED, NOT OBR, NOT NFHS.

*Especially in FED, step and throw from wind-up is not legal. If anybody has some video of this move, I'd love to see it. I just don't see it possible. Step and throw to first from wind-up, yea, never seen it, but it is legal and possible, for a righty. But, how many dumb coaches are having thier F1's toss from wind-up with runners on??

Chris s
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Step and throw to first from wind-up, yea, never seen it, but it is legal and possible, for a righty.

Why not legal for a lefty? The rule doesn't distinguish between righty or lefty. Nor does it distinguish between
which base he cannot throw to.

how many dumb coaches are having thier F1's toss from wind-up with runners on??

Some pitcher's throw better from the wind-up. With a runner on third, why not pitch from the wind-up? More power on pitch from wind-up and unlikely runner is gonna steal home.


*Picking off a runner from the wind-up will never be done. First of all the pitcher goes to the wind-up conceding the pick-off play.

If he was thinking pick off, he would go to the stretch.

Now if the pitcher is in the wind-up position, and he is going to pick someone off, the he better do it with out any preliminary move.

Whowefoolin
__________________

Have you read rule I'm referring to? Or seen other posts regarding this rule? And where did "any preliminary move"
come from?

You say:

Picking off a runner from the wind-up will never be done. First of all the pitcher goes to the wind-up conceding the pick-off play.

Then you say:

Now if the pitcher is in the wind-up position, and he is going to pick someone off, the he better do it with out any preliminary move.

See TOP please!


I was hoping this forum would help me with a better understanding of the rules and situations, instead it has confused me even more.

Thank You All for your responses...I think!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Does anyone actually read previously posted threads, or just type whatever comes to mind?

Yes -- and the rule was explained.

It's legal (other than in FED) to throw to a base from the wind-up position.

You don't see it because (a) pitchers think it's illegal, and (b) it doesn't fool anyone (at least at higher levels).

If I was coaching youth baseball, I'd use it.

(OH -- I should add that in LL 12 and under, since there aren't any lead-offs, there aren't many pick-off attempts either. At least, that's my understanding.)

[thumpferee]

I'm confused about the fact that there are so many different views of the rule.

The rule is the rule.

Rich says it's a balk.

Whowefoolin says pitcher concedes the pick off play when in wind-up position.

Chris s says it's possible for a righty.

You say it's legal.

I value your interpretation, Bob, but why are we not on same page here as umpires?

I assumed there would be a defining answer, but, there I go assuming again!

And yes, I understand that:

in LL 12 and under, since there aren't any lead-offs, there aren't many pick-off attempts either.

Shouldn't be any pick-off plays in minors or Lil' League. But what about juniors and seniors under LL rules?

And yes, I will be teaching my son, who is a pitcher, this rule, and to use it.

Can't wait til I have him try it in the game.

I can hear the Ump now......Balk!

But now that I know better, you won't see me making that call.

Thank You for your response!

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by chris s

1) I said you'd risk the consequences of NOT turning. If you start in windup and deliver to the plate without turning you'll have an all-arm throw with nothing on it and/or you'll hurt yourself.

2)NO IT IS NOT A BALK!!!!!! IT IS SPECIFICALLY PERMITTED IN RULE 8.01(a) IN BOTH LL AND OBR. If you call a balk and get protested, you will lose.



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Especially in FED, step and throw from wind-up is not legal. If anybody has some video of this move, I'd love to see it. I just don't see it possible. Step and throw to first from wind-up, yea, never seen it, but it is legal and possible, for a righty. But, how many dumb coaches are having thier F1's toss from wind-up with runners on??

Yes, it is a balk in FED. We said so. The original question was, though, about LL, not FED.