Obstruction then appeal

[UmpJM]

rbmartin,

If the obstruction was the proximate cause of the obstructed runner missing the base, an appeal of the miss should not be upheld. This is most likely to occur when the runner is just shy of a base when obstructed or he is obstructed at the base.

Otherwise, the runner, even though obstructed, is still responsible for touching the bases in order on his advance or retreat.

In both your sitches, you would award the runner the base you feel he would have obtained absent the obstruction (since it's FED, a minimum of one base beyond his position at the time he was obstructed), then call him out if the defense properly appeals.

JM