The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 12:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 204
Red Sox/Blue Jays 6.10 Question

My second question in a week -- hope I'm not overstaying my welcome.

Was watching Red Sox v. Blue Jays tonight with friends. David Ortiz was the DH on the lineup card. He had back spasms and did not take his first at bat against the starting pitcher. Instead another player (Lowrie) took the on deck cicle and was announced as, and batted as, a pinch hitter. He played the rest of the game as the DH.

One of the people watching the game mentioned he thought the DH had to take an at bat and that sounded familiar. Looking at OBR 6.10(b), it says that the line up card DH must "come to bat" at least once unless the pitcher has changed. Does this mean actually take the batter's box, or is this merely a rule to ensure the DH cannot re-enter the game and must sit out if he doesn't take his first at bat -- that is he cannot be a substitute later?

If the former, what should the penalty have been? None is stated in the rule. Is it an out of order appeal play?

If the latter, does that mean a DH doesn't enter the game until he bats, even if he's on the lineup card? (I guess the only time this would matter is this: Jones on lineup card as DH. Before his first AB, opponent brings in a new pitcher. Can Smith now be DH and Jones pinch run or pinch hit later?). Just curiuos. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 01:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 48
This part of the rule was put in place becuase Earl Weaver used to list the next day's starting pitcher as the DH so that his options would be open when the DH spot came up in the order. This story gives all of the back ground..

How Earl Weaver changed the DH rule The J.G. Preston Experience

I don't know what the penalty would be, if any.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 01:40am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Rulesmaven: Don't worry, it's the slow season around here. We will usually talk about anything and everything from jock straps to jock itch around this time of year, just for something to do!
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 09:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulesmaven View Post
My second question in a week -- hope I'm not overstaying my welcome.

Was watching Red Sox v. Blue Jays tonight with friends. David Ortiz was the DH on the lineup card. He had back spasms and did not take his first at bat against the starting pitcher. Instead another player (Lowrie) took the on deck cicle and was announced as, and batted as, a pinch hitter. He played the rest of the game as the DH.

One of the people watching the game mentioned he thought the DH had to take an at bat and that sounded familiar. Looking at OBR 6.10(b), it says that the line up card DH must "come to bat" at least once unless the pitcher has changed. Does this mean actually take the batter's box, or is this merely a rule to ensure the DH cannot re-enter the game and must sit out if he doesn't take his first at bat -- that is he cannot be a substitute later?

If the former, what should the penalty have been? None is stated in the rule. Is it an out of order appeal play?

If the latter, does that mean a DH doesn't enter the game until he bats, even if he's on the lineup card? (I guess the only time this would matter is this: Jones on lineup card as DH. Before his first AB, opponent brings in a new pitcher. Can Smith now be DH and Jones pinch run or pinch hit later?). Just curiuos. Thanks.
The guy was injured and you expect him to bat anyhow? What if he'd died before coming to bat?

Now can you answer your own first question?

Could a true maven have answered the question?
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong

Last edited by Rich Ives; Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:22am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 09:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Rich... Rule 10.1.4.A: if a player dies during the game, he shall not be forced to bat or pitch.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 11:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The guy was injured and you expect him to bat anyhow? What if he'd died before coming to bat?

Now can you answer your own first question?

Could a true maven have answered the question?
"rulesmavenwannabe" was too long to register.

"Come to bat" is a weird phrase to have in the rules, and unlike most of the rules, there is usually a consequence -- for example OBR is very specific about the obligations of the line up card starting pitcher pitching to the first batter, and expressly includes language about injury, which 6.10 doesn't, which I thought made it worth a question. Usually where drafters include language in one rule but not parallel language in an analagous rule the omission is interpreted as deliberate.

But the Earl Weaver link explains things. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 12:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Rich... Rule 10.1.4.A: if a player dies during the game, he shall not be forced to bat or pitch.
That's the NCAA rule - OBR doesn't cover it
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2011, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulesmaven View Post
Usually where drafters include language in one rule but not parallel language in an analagous rule the omission is interpreted as deliberate.

Thanks.
You'll find that baseball rules don't follow that logic. That's why there are so many case books, comments, approved rulings, etc.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 15, 2011, 11:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
You'll find that baseball rules don't follow that logic. That's why there are so many case books, comments, approved rulings, etc.
I agree with you, Rich, but the whole thread is illogical as we are not dealing with a switch-a-roo, we are dealing with an injury. I would rule the same way as MLB did in this case. The game hasn't started, the player is now injured and will remain out for the game, put in a sub and let's get the game rolling. The OOF's trying to stick to the printed rule probably never ran into this in real life.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yankees @ Blue Jays Larry1953 Baseball 33 Sat Jul 23, 2011 06:17am
Dick Vitale Struck By Foul Ball At Rays-Blue Jays Game (VIDEO) SAump Baseball 0 Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:11pm
Angels-Blue Jays : Salmon interfered but not out? Peruvian Baseball 5 Wed May 17, 2006 01:10pm
Umpire dress (Jays-Rays) Jay R Baseball 13 Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:34pm
Weird play Blue Jays-Rangers Jay R Baseball 29 Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:48am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1