The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 17, 2011, 06:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Yankees @ Blue Jays

Batter for Jays hits a grounder for what could be a 6-3. The throw draws F3 Posada off the bag. B/R oversteps first. Angel Hernandez makes no call. Posada makes a deliberate tag of the bag while looking at Hernandez. Still no call. Posada then jogs down the line to tag B/R who is called out.

Question on the mechanics: I have read some threads that say the B/R "attains" first base when he beats the play - even if he misses the bag - and the umpire is to signal safe so as not to tip off the defense that they need to make the appeal. Secondly, why wasn't the deliberate tag of the bag by F3 enough to make the appeal - it looked like he did it twice. Finally, if there were 2 outs and R3 is this a time play where the run would count or would it be "run does not count when the third out is made on B/R at first?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 17, 2011, 07:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
The video link

Baseball Oddities | [email protected]: Posada tags Escobar for the out in odd play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

It was actually a 4-3 grounder up the middle. Posada never actually got the tag so the out call could have been a baseline or failure to return to first infraction. If the runner had taken off for 2B, Posada might have thrown down to second (since his first appeal of stepping on the bag did not work). A botched rundown might have allowed the runner to get back to first.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 17, 2011, 08:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orange County NY
Posts: 698
Send a message via Yahoo to ASA/NYSSOBLUE
I JUST happened to turn the Yankee game on at that point.

I know is softball the mechanic is not to make a call, and all Posada would have had to do would make what we call a 'live ball appeal' by stepping on the bag or tagging Escobar, so I am assuming baseball is similar. And yes it looks like Hernandez did everything properly...
__________________
www.chvbgsoinc.org
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 17, 2011, 09:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Your definitely a one-man forum, Larry. Your start the thread, ask the questions and answer them too. You obviously have toooooo much time on your hands.

I believe that if both the ball and the runner are in the vinicity of the base, an appeal is not allowed. The runner must be tagged. Whether or not Angel should have signaled safe at first, I really don't remember what OBR does anymore. HS rules I believe you still signal at first.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 17, 2011, 10:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY state
Posts: 1,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
Your definitely a one-man forum, Larry. Your start the thread, ask the questions and answer them too.
Yep. He's "that kid"...and that annoying.

But don't worry, he'll get bored and go away...he always does.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 07:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry1953 View Post
Batter for Jays hits a grounder for what could be a 6-3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry1953 View Post
It was actually a 4-3 grounder up the middle.
Oh -- the mechanic is different depending on which fielder it was. Now, had it been 5-3, well, then we'd have something to discuss.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 09:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 769
Send a message via AIM to yawetag Send a message via Yahoo to yawetag
Did anyone else notice F3 missed the tag away from the base, too? You see it on the last replay.
__________________
Andrew Senger
MSHSAA Certified Baseball Umpire
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. He's also postmaster and probably traffic cop, too. All the jobs for sports referees are probably filled, though." --Lemel Hebert-Williams
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 10:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag View Post
Did anyone else notice F3 missed the tag away from the base, too? You see it on the last replay.
Yes I did, and we have all been in that situation where you just expect the easy tag to be made. You ring up the runner and then realize it wasn't made. As in most cases it is accecpted as is but, every once in awhile you get a real good move by a runner and find yourself with a little egg on your face.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 769
Send a message via AIM to yawetag Send a message via Yahoo to yawetag
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
Yes I did, and we have all been in that situation where you just expect the easy tag to be made. You ring up the runner and then realize it wasn't made. As in most cases it is accecpted as is but, every once in awhile you get a real good move by a runner and find yourself with a little egg on your face.
I think your timing's a bit quick.
__________________
Andrew Senger
MSHSAA Certified Baseball Umpire
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. He's also postmaster and probably traffic cop, too. All the jobs for sports referees are probably filled, though." --Lemel Hebert-Williams
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:03am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,632
Personally, I'm surprised Angel didn't call the runner safe. I was under the impression that a runner will be called safe in this situation and the only time no call would be made is at the plate when a tag of the plate is missed.

Of course, mechanics may have changed (or may be made up on the fly by ML umpires).
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,057
Send a message via Yahoo to UmpJM
Cool

Rich,

I believe the "no call" mechanic was correct in this sitch because the throw took F3 off the base and there was, therefore, no tag of 1B to rule on.

Had the throw simply been late and F3 had kept his foot on the bag, then I believe the safe mechanic is called for.

JM
__________________
Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 154
Not sure this is correct. If F3's foot was on the bag but the throw had been late and the B/R reached 1st before the tag of the base, but had not touched 1st base, wouldn't you make the safe call? I think once the B/R acquired 1st, the safe call mechanic should have been given regardless of the proximity of F3.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2011, 10:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2011, 07:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry1953 View Post
Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?
What does 4.09(a)(1) say?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2011, 08:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
What does 4.09(a)(1) say?
True that. Rule 7.08(e) says the runner is out if he OR the base is tagged BEFORE he touches the base. It was confusing why Angel Hernandez did not signal out when Posada made a clear and distinct tag of first while looking at him. Things like "attained base", "relaxed action", "continuous action" are not mentioned in the rule book.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dick Vitale Struck By Foul Ball At Rays-Blue Jays Game (VIDEO) SAump Baseball 0 Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:11pm
Yankees-Jays (batter hit on strikeout) Jay R Baseball 4 Tue Sep 02, 2008 01:38am
Angels-Blue Jays : Salmon interfered but not out? Peruvian Baseball 5 Wed May 17, 2006 01:10pm
Umpire dress (Jays-Rays) Jay R Baseball 13 Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:34pm
Weird play Blue Jays-Rangers Jay R Baseball 29 Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:48am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1