Yankees @ Blue Jays

[Larry1953]

Batter for Jays hits a grounder for what could be a 6-3. The throw draws F3 Posada off the bag. B/R oversteps first. Angel Hernandez makes no call. Posada makes a deliberate tag of the bag while looking at Hernandez. Still no call. Posada then jogs down the line to tag B/R who is called out.

Question on the mechanics: I have read some threads that say the B/R "attains" first base when he beats the play - even if he misses the bag - and the umpire is to signal safe so as not to tip off the defense that they need to make the appeal. Secondly, why wasn't the deliberate tag of the bag by F3 enough to make the appeal - it looked like he did it twice. Finally, if there were 2 outs and R3 is this a time play where the run would count or would it be "run does not count when the third out is made on B/R at first?

[Larry1953]

The video link

Baseball Oddities | NYY@TOR: Posada tags Escobar for the out in odd play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

It was actually a 4-3 grounder up the middle. Posada never actually got the tag so the out call could have been a baseline or failure to return to first infraction. If the runner had taken off for 2B, Posada might have thrown down to second (since his first appeal of stepping on the bag did not work). A botched rundown might have allowed the runner to get back to first.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

I JUST happened to turn the Yankee game on at that point.

I know is softball the mechanic is not to make a call, and all Posada would have had to do would make what we call a 'live ball appeal' by stepping on the bag or tagging Escobar, so I am assuming baseball is similar. And yes it looks like Hernandez did everything properly...

[jicecone]

Your definitely a one-man forum, Larry. Your start the thread, ask the questions and answer them too. You obviously have toooooo much time on your hands.

I believe that if both the ball and the runner are in the vinicity of the base, an appeal is not allowed. The runner must be tagged. Whether or not Angel should have signaled safe at first, I really don't remember what OBR does anymore. HS rules I believe you still signal at first.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Your definitely a one-man forum, Larry. Your start the thread, ask the questions and answer them too.

Yep. He's "that kid"...and that annoying.

But don't worry, he'll get bored and go away...he always does.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Batter for Jays hits a grounder for what could be a 6-3.

Originally Posted by Larry1953

It was actually a 4-3 grounder up the middle.

Oh -- the mechanic is different depending on which fielder it was. Now, had it been 5-3, well, then we'd have something to discuss.

[yawetag]

Did anyone else notice F3 missed the tag away from the base, too? You see it on the last replay.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Did anyone else notice F3 missed the tag away from the base, too? You see it on the last replay.

Yes I did, and we have all been in that situation where you just expect the easy tag to be made. You ring up the runner and then realize it wasn't made. As in most cases it is accecpted as is but, every once in awhile you get a real good move by a runner and find yourself with a little egg on your face.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Yes I did, and we have all been in that situation where you just expect the easy tag to be made. You ring up the runner and then realize it wasn't made. As in most cases it is accecpted as is but, every once in awhile you get a real good move by a runner and find yourself with a little egg on your face.

I think your timing's a bit quick.

[Rich]

Personally, I'm surprised Angel didn't call the runner safe. I was under the impression that a runner will be called safe in this situation and the only time no call would be made is at the plate when a tag of the plate is missed.

Of course, mechanics may have changed (or may be made up on the fly by ML umpires).

[UmpJM]

Rich,

I believe the "no call" mechanic was correct in this sitch because the throw took F3 off the base and there was, therefore, no tag of 1B to rule on.

Had the throw simply been late and F3 had kept his foot on the bag, then I believe the safe mechanic is called for.

JM

[BSUmp16]

Not sure this is correct. If F3's foot was on the bag but the throw had been late and the B/R reached 1st before the tag of the base, but had not touched 1st base, wouldn't you make the safe call? I think once the B/R acquired 1st, the safe call mechanic should have been given regardless of the proximity of F3.

[Larry1953]

Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?

What does 4.09(a)(1) say?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What does 4.09(a)(1) say?

True that. Rule 7.08(e) says the runner is out if he OR the base is tagged BEFORE he touches the base. It was confusing why Angel Hernandez did not signal out when Posada made a clear and distinct tag of first while looking at him. Things like "attained base", "relaxed action", "continuous action" are not mentioned in the rule book.