LLWS umpires need to take a page from NFL refs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

No, that part of the product does NOT reflect that. You're wrong, completely wrong, IMO..

It's the selection process, not the availability of quality umpires. LL will still select the one year veteran 35 times over whether he's paid or not. It's a gold watch (or more accurately, a LL WS Participant medal) for a number of people every year. Paying LL umpires for these games - what will that solve? It will bring people in that wouldn't work the games without that paycheck, that's all.

I did not expect you to agree, you are a lot closer to that situation than I will ever be. And if they are satisfied with the guy that has worked 35 years but looks like hell, then so be it. But then they will continue to get criticized by folks here and in the media when they cannot get simple plays right.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I did get some expenses reimbursed, BTW, for my trip to Bangor for the Senior World Series. We got a hotel room, 2 meals a day, and my district gave me money to put towards gas for the trip. Yes, I'm still out a considerable amount of money, but I'm not complaining.

In this economy that will eliminate a lot of good people right or wrong.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's part of the gig. I make good money officiating other baseball and other sports and it's my choice whether or not I work LL or not. I know the terms. And I don't think the quality of umpires selected would improve if those guys were paid and if their travel expenses were covered.

We all know the terms when we accept games. I have heard you say you will not accept the terms to work other levels in other sports because the overall cost is not worth it to you. That is all I am saying here, they have eliminated people because they have to choose if working that level is worth the hundreds of dollars (or thousands) to work a game when everyone is getting fat off the TV money and sponsorships.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

BTW, I would pay the travel expenses for the umpires if I was king. The coaches and teams all get flown to the tournaments. As of right now, the only people involved that have to pay to get there are the umpires and that part I *would* fix.

And that is my point. I have to pay my expenses to work a tournament that sponsors are paying millions to the other participants so they can have a tournament. Why not let the kids call balls and strikes if we are so not important in the games? I did not say you had to give every umpire $1000 a game. I said pay them so they do not have to come out of their pocket just to work a game. And because of that there are folks that work LL that have been paid all year long now say "Why bother" in the biggest games of the year for that organization. Something is wrong with that IMO.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And because of that there are folks that work LL that have been paid all year long now say "Why bother" in the biggest games of the year for that organization. Something is wrong with that IMO.

Except that receiving a game fee for Little League is supposed to eliminate an umpire for consideration. It's a question on the application form.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Except that receiving a game fee for Little League is supposed to eliminate an umpire for consideration. It's a question on the application form.

Again, another dumb requirement by LL. When I worked LL back in the day we were not given a "choice" to take money or not. I did not even realize that that "volunteerism" was expected by the LL. In order to work all levels the park district took care of everything and we were assigned to games based more on availability rather than what we choose to do. So when we were assigned those games, we just took them. Also we had taxes taken out of our checks as we would make hundreds of dollars during the spring and summer. No one said to give the money back or to donate that fee. And I do know of a person that has wanted to work higher levels and I am sure he took money at some point. Maybe he does not now, but he had to at one time. And now they are making people lie just to adhere to some silly standard that umpires have to choose to work a game for pay and not get any money. I am sure there are leagues would not get any umpires if they did not pay their umpires. You cannot honestly believe this is the best system for selecting the best umpires Rich?

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

Yeah and bring it up on the table instead of being hypocrites and turning their backs on under the table payoffs locally.

Under the table? Reimbursements for expenses and gear purchases are encouraged by LL. It's what they suggest for retaining umpires. LL isn't saying that umpires shouldn't receive gear or gas reimbursements or uniforms or training or anything like that.

It's not, despite what people think, a vow to take nothing but a hot dog and a coke after the game.

[UmpTTS43]

I commend the men and women working the LLWS at all age levels. They have put in the time and commitment into an avocation that I'm sure they all love. Cudos to them for getting the opportunity.

That being said, the LL system concerning umpires needs to be addressed. I could care less about the pay v no pay sitch. I would love to see LL provide more training opportunities for the umpires that choose this path in order to make them the best umpires they can be.

I am not a LL umpire. Maybe this is already the case. It just seems that the level of umpiring is not evolving at the same pace the level of play is. If LL is to be proud of their product as a whole, it should include the officials as well.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I commend the men and women working the LLWS at all age levels. They have put in the time and commitment into an avocation that I'm sure they all love. Cudos to them for getting the opportunity.

That being said, the LL system concerning umpires needs to be addressed. I could care less about the pay v no pay sitch. I would love to see LL provide more training opportunities for the umpires that choose this path in order to make them the best umpires they can be.

I am not a LL umpire. Maybe this is already the case. It just seems that the level of umpiring is not evolving at the same pace the level of play is. If LL is to be proud of their product as a whole, it should include the officials as well.

Part of the problem here is that many of the Smittys we see on the field run the regional ump clinics. What can anyone learn from them?

A friend of mine went to one, led by a wizened WP bigwig ump. He took the whole weekend to read the rulebook to the class.

And on the "pay" thing, I think each league should arrange for their own umpires, paid or not. For all regional and WS tourneys, I think umps should have all expenses paid, including transportation.

As I've said before, many of these "veterans" wouldn't touch a Babe Ruth game, much less a high school tussle.

The upper echelons need more guys like Fronnie: experienced at various levels, but with a subspecialty in LL--knowledgeable of its vagaries.

I agree with the posters who, in essence, say, "It's on national TV, with the best youth players in the world. Why not have the best umpires?"

Ace
DustVest in storage

[THoy]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I commend the men and women working the LLWS at all age levels. They have put in the time and commitment into an avocation that I'm sure they all love. Cudos to them for getting the opportunity.

That being said, the LL system concerning umpires needs to be addressed. I could care less about the pay v no pay sitch. I would love to see LL provide more training opportunities for the umpires that choose this path in order to make them the best umpires they can be.

I am not a LL umpire. Maybe this is already the case. It just seems that the level of umpiring is not evolving at the same pace the level of play is. If LL is to be proud of their product as a whole, it should include the officials as well.

The system is being improved yearly. In the West, in order to be considered for the higher levels of tournament you must attended a week long school patterned after the pro schools (rules in AM, cage work, and field work). You are evaluated in regional tournaments and then recommended. The volunteer requirement is a component of LL that has been around since its inception..its part of the entire philosophy. Just because people want a piece of the corporate pie doesn't make it wrong for LL to expect volunteerism. Can people be dishonest and secure a spot at the Series....sure..but thats on them. If someone justifies it as "stupid" to have to be a volunteer thats fine....IMHO if you dont believe in the program...dont be a part of it....and moreover if your getting paid somewhere else why do you care? Either do your part to improve the system or dont worry about it.

People talk about the "level of umpiring" at the LL level being horrible...I see mistakes being made at ALL levels. People talk about a rating system for umpires at MLB, then when it is instituted, mistakes are made in post season. Its part of the game at ALL levels, no matter how you slice it, paid or not. Its going to take time and people wanting to get better.

[MrUmpire]

What is disappointing is that the level of performance of umpires at the LLWS had been improving. Beginning about five our six years ago there seemed to be steady progress.

This year LL took a step backwards. The performance at the LLWS was the worst in years. Hopefully, they'll take an honest look at what they go and how they got it and do what it takes to provide the teams the best umpires rather than the best volunteers.

The best umpires deserve the LLWS. The best volunteers deserve a certificate and a thank you. Maybe a watch.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

The best umpires deserve the LLWS. The best volunteers deserve a certificate and a thank you. Maybe a watch.

The best umpires who volunteer for LL would be more than capable of doing the job. I think the selection process could be improved. I discuss this in the other thread. The problem is that nobody wants to be the person to say, "Thanks for your service, but I simply cannot recommend you for the next level at this time." So umpires gets recommended up the chain and we get people at WS tournaments who are over their heads.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

Can you show that on the LL site?

Did you miss the part where it's OK to buy the umpires uniforms and gear?

http://www.littleleague.org/umpires/whereareumpires.htm

Keep new umpires’ costs down by supplying some or all the equipment they need. Don’t make them buy a bunch of equipment and uniforms at the beginning of their career.

Provide rule books, patches, equipment, etc., for umpires. Start with a community set of equipment that everyone uses. Then progress to those that return or agree to umpire so many games will get a mask, more games will get a chest protector, etc.

[MrUmpire]

Rich:

Surely you remember the Deej (FitUmp) and his partner Uninterested Ump and their tactics. Reality is futile.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Rich:

Surely you remember the Deej (FitUmp) and his partner Uninterested Ump and their tactics. Reality is futile.

Of course. What amuses me is he pulled his quotes from the same page I'm quoting. Not only is he stupid, but he's also completely dishonest, too.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Part of the problem here is that many of the Smittys we see on the field run the regional ump clinics. What can anyone learn from them?

A friend of mine went to one, led by a wizened WP bigwig ump. He took the whole weekend to read the rulebook to the class.

And on the "pay" thing, I think each league should arrange for their own umpires, paid or not. For all regional and WS tourneys, I think umps should have all expenses paid, including transportation.

As I've said before, many of these "veterans" wouldn't touch a Babe Ruth game, much less a high school tussle.

The upper echelons need more guys like Fronnie: experienced at various levels, but with a subspecialty in LL--knowledgeable of its vagaries.

I agree with the posters who, in essence, say, "It's on national TV, with the best youth players in the world. Why not have the best umpires?"

Ace
DustVest in storage

No, they are not the best youth players in the world. They are the ones who choose to participate in LL and form all-star teams to qualify for Williamsport. There are countless USSSA, NBC, etc. type teams who are every bit as good as the teams in the LLWS and actually play on a field meant for 13 year-olds. (The size of the field in LL is a joke. When almost every ground ball on the infield is a whacker at first, maybe your bases aren't far enough apart?)

There are 13 year-olds locally playing on high school fields during the summer, and the teams aren't even that good. If they can do it, these "elite" teams in Williamsport can at least play on 70 foot bases and move the mound and fences back more.

I just can't get with LL. The way ESPN covers the LLWS, the cheesiness of the whole thing, the dumb rules, the field (already mentioned), and the umpiring just make the whole thing pretty goofy.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

Cheesy sells. Cheesy is what you get for LL umps who "volunteer" when they can call almost any other ball and get paid a decent wage.

Some of us see umpiring as more than a job.

Many people volunteer time to, say, build a house for Habitat for Humanity. How many people go up to them and say, "Shame. Builders could be making $30 an hour building this house. Why are you doing it for free?"

Lots of kids can't afford to pay travel-sized registration fees to play baseball. The local Little League is a place to go where all kids are welcome. If you don't want to donate some time to umpire these games, that's fine. I won't hold that against you. But why hold my choice of community service and charity against me? It's my time, not yours.