LLWS Umpires (Oregon vs Georgia)

[kingUMP]

Not to negatively comment on these umpires who have volunteered their time and expense to umpire in the LLWS, but here I go...

In tonight's game, Southeast vs Northwest, three plays got to me:
1: Oregon player missed first base, and the defense appealed, but the umpire called him safe? From the replay it looked like an easy call, and in a 6 man crew, where else would he have been looking? He doesn't have much other responsibility, other than staying on his feet, which he did admirably.

2: Oregon first baseman catching a throw from an infielder against the ground, then used his bare hand to help pick the ball up. Umpire still called the runner out! I don't know about this call, he may have gotten it right, and from his (correct) angle he likely couldn't see what the camera saw. Or am I missing the boat on this one? What did you all think?

3. Finally, on the Georgia bunt, runner was hit in the back with the throw from the catcher, while he was in fair territory (outside of the running lane). This one seemed obvious too!

What game were these guys watching? Or is it just me? Maybe I am confunsed, watching and commenting from my couch, after seeing the replay several times. These guys do great, but, uh, well, maybe not tonight.

[ManInBlue]

The only play I saw was the 5-3 ground out you mentioned in #2. From personal experience I'm going to say he flat blew it, but stuck to his call as he should have. What he thought he saw was a catch.

Now...what I learned from that (I was in a 2-man, in B, so I didn't have the prilivledge of being right on top of the play) was that in this case timing plays a bigger role than usual. He needed to continue to move around where he could see the ball/glove and wait for F3 to pick the ball up with his bare hand - then make a call. He blew it, period. If he is indeed a good ump, he knows this and learned from it. I did. And because I've done it, it seemed like an easy call to me and he missed.

With that said - it wasn't an 'easy' call, and I have to give him kudos for sticking to his call.

I couldn't watch the game. PU's strike mechanic was very irritating. Immediate right hand out to the side (with very little hesitation), then stand up and do it again. Why in the name of all that is good did he have to make two movements to call a strike? I couldn't tolerate it.

[PeteBooth]

During the last couple of years IMO, the quality of umpiring at the Regional level and ultimately the LLWS was of good quality.

I do not know what happened this year. The games I watched on TV at the Regional level the umpiring was sub-par at best and the umpires at WP are not off to a good start.

Also, what has driven me crazy is all the theatricals on a swinging strike 3. It's like the PU's want to put on a show for ESPN. Also, the emphatic Foul ball calls on balls that everyone knows are foul.

As far as the running lane violation, I would not be too hard on the PU. Remember the infamous Knoblock incident in the Yanks / Indians series years back,

As far as the missed base, if U1 was asleep which it appears he was, then he should have called TIME and asked for assistance knowing the play will be repalyed time amd time again on TV.

The main problem IMO, is that for the most part these guys/gals have never worked together. Also, 6 umpires on a 60ft. diamond - Overkill

Pete Booth

[Arnold A.]

Also, the three "nubbers" in front of the plate that the home plate umpires all ruled correctly as fair balls, yet were overturned by the base umpires and turned into "foul balls".

[GarthB]

I share Pete's disappointment.

The quality level at LL Regionals and LLWS over the past two years had moved up a notch; and with all the fanfare on the boards of even higher quality people going this year, I was anticipating enjoying some good umpiring.

Sadly, the regionals took at least a five year step back and the early viewing of Williamsport shows no evidence of being much better.

[ChucktownBlue]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The main problem IMO, is that for the most part these guys/gals have never worked together. Also, 6 umpires on a 60ft. diamond - Overkill
Pete Booth

Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. With six umpires, they don't have to work together! All they have to do is get their own calls right! The main problem is nobody ever tells people what they're doing wrong. Remember this is LL. They are volunteers. UICs don't want to lose umpires, so many take the "It's better to have a bad umpire than no umpire" approach, and don't criticize for fear of losing the few volunteers they do have.

I can almost guarantee their local evaluations said they were flawless. I've personally seen critical evaluations that never made it to the evaluatee because the District UIC took it and trashed it.

So all these "flawless" umpires get recommendations for regionals, and most are chosen sight unseen, based solely on these recommendations. That's why I can understand Regionals getting some bad umpiring, but Regionals send recommendations for Williamsport assignments.

My state UIC was behind the plate today for the Mexico game, and talk about a tea-cup strike zone.... 3 pitchers, 5 walks, and 68 pitches in 1/2 inning. There's no way he gets that game if someone has actually seen him call before. Regardless of what anyone says, the good-ole-boy network still influences these assignments.

[mick]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

So all these "flawless" umpires get recommendations for regionals, and most are chosen sight unseen, based solely on these recommendations. That's why I can understand Regionals getting some bad umpiring, but Regionals send recommendations for Williamsport assignments.

That is a curious statement ! Most ? Sight unseen?

The umpires from U.P. here seem to have to attend the Little League Umpires Clinic in Indianapolis before being invited to the Regionals and higher. Further, it seems that if such an umpire attends a Regional Tournament as a volunteer to assist in that tournament, and to hang out with the Regional staff, then the Regional staff gets acquainted with the volunteers and become more comfortable with who they are and with the type of individual they may be dealing with as tournament umpires.
mick

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I share Pete's disappointment.

The quality level at LL Regionals and LLWS over the past two years had moved up a notch; and with all the fanfare on the boards of even higher quality people going this year, I was anticipating enjoying some good umpiring.

Sadly, the regionals took at least a five year step back and the early viewing of Williamsport shows no evidence of being much better.

Of course, my buddy has two games the first two days total -- both on outfield lines. I'll be there tomorrow and Monday, so I'll get a better look then.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

My state UIC was behind the plate today for the Mexico game, and talk about a tea-cup strike zone.... 3 pitchers, 5 walks, and 68 pitches in 1/2 inning. There's no way he gets that game if someone has actually seen him call before. Regardless of what anyone says, the good-ole-boy network still influences these assignments.

Yes, too teensy a zone, by far, IMHO.

BUT, nice mechanics (save for same arm mechanic on all strikes--why do guys do this?)--and the first WP ump I've seen in years who doesn't do a semaphore wave on obvious foul balls.

Didja see the PU on the Venezuela-Taipei game? Homemade billy-goat protector with shoe laces hanging down to almost his waist. Plus, how do these guys find chest protectors that long? Dude had one hitting his belt!

And yes, OR/GA umps, especially U1--horrible. Ditto on PU for missing a textbook batter INT call (out of lane).

Remember, many of the influential people in assigning are smitties themselves!

Ace

[ChucktownBlue]

Originally Posted by mick

That is a curious statement ! Most ? Sight unseen?
The umpires from U.P. here seem to have to attend the Little League Umpires Clinic in Indianapolis before being invited to the Regionals and higher.

Seem to have to attend? Either they do or they don't. Might be a regional requirement. Most will have attended a Regional clinic, but obviously, if that's how the decisions are being made, at a clinic, the results speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by mick

Further, it seems that if such an umpire attends a Regional Tournament as a volunteer to assist in that tournament, and to hang out with the Regional staff, then the Regional staff gets acquainted with the volunteers and become more comfortable with who they are and with the type of individual they may be dealing with as tournament umpires.
mick

So if such an umpire did this, was a nice enough guy and kissed enough butt, he may get an assignment? I think I already addressed that. It's called the good-ole-boy program. And that's the problem. They get to know someone outside the lines, which has nothing to do with on-field ability. And there are no interviews or required visits or on-site evaluations to receive the assignment. Districts submit recommendations. State directors sign off it, and submit "resumes" to Regional HQ, who make the calls.

[mick]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

Seem to have to attend? Either they do or they don't. Might be a regional requirement. Most will have attended a Regional clinic, but obviously, if that's how the decisions are being made, at a clinic, the results speak for themselves.

I offer the information because your description was "sight unseen". For our guys U.P. here it is not that way.

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

So if such an umpire did this, was a nice enough guy and kissed enough butt, he may get an assignment? I think I already addressed that. It's called the good-ole-boy program. And that's the problem. They get to know someone outside the lines, which has nothing to do with on-field ability. And there are no interviews or required visits or on-site evaluations to receive the assignment. Districts submit recommendations. State directors sign off it, and submit "resumes" to Regional HQ, who make the calls.

Well, I know of no employers that hire without some sort of interview. Knowing a person on a personal level accompanied with the mandatory (it seems) attendance at a clinic is not entirely outside the lines, regardless of the amount of individual or collective flattery required.

The highlighted portion of your post just doesn't seem to be correct within the Central Region, although you seem to be implying such in your omniscient post on this subject.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mick

I offer the information because your description was "sight unseen". For our guys U.P. here it is not that way.



Well, I know of no employers that hire without some sort of interview. Knowing a person on a personal level accompanied with the mandatory (it seems) attendance at a clinic is not entirely outside the lines, regardless of the amount of individual or collective flattery required.

The highlighted portion of your post just doesn't seem to be correct within the Central Region, although you seem to be implying such in your omniscient post on this subject.

He's partly right, Mick. The DA must sign off on the application, but in the CR the application won't get kicked up to Williamsport without Mike Legge's approval. To get that you have to have attended one of the week long schools, or a few weekend clinincs in Indy at a minimum.

BTW - Have you met an umpire from the U.P. that everyone calls "Santa." I met him at a regional last Summer and he's a great guy.


Tim.

[mick]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

He's partly right, Mick. The DA must sign off on the application, but in the CR the application won't get kicked up to Williamsport without Mike Legge's approval. To get that you have to have attended one of the week long schools, or a few weekend clinincs in Indy at a minimum.

BTW - Have you met an umpire from the U.P. that everyone calls "Santa." I met him at a regional last Summer and he's a great guy.


Tim.

Yes, Tim, the District Administrator certainly does have to give blessings to a potential Regional umpire, but the clinic eliminates the *sight unseen* description.

That Yooper Umpire you met was probably Dennis *Claus* Swanson who just happened to have been an old roomie of mine at a Little League State Softball tournament about 3 years ago. Did he have "Pins, Pins, Pins" ? He's crazy for 'em. Jolly elf, a nice man and no hat under his mask.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mick

That Yooper Umpire you met was probably Dennis *Claus* Swanson who just happened to have been an old roomie of mine at a Little League State Softball tournament about 3 years ago. Did he have "Pins, Pins, Pins" ? He's crazy for 'em. Jolly elf, a nice man and no hat under his mask.

Yep, that's the guy. He was here in South Bend last August working the Senior Softball Regional. A goup of us went out to share a few war stories, and several of us, including Dennis, ended up sharing more pitchers of brew than we should have.


Tim.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. With six umpires, they don't have to work together! All they have to do is get their own calls right!

We all have our opinions but on a 60 ft. diamond 6 adults IMO is way overkill.

Also, you say "get their own calls right" gets to be a problem on balls hit down the line. The PU normally has Fair/Foul to the bag, then U1/U3 has the fair / Foul after the bag. When does the fair / Foul belong to LFU or RFU?

What are the responsibilities of the LFU or RFU? Even the PROS mess up sometimes when working 6 man.


It's not like one is working with 6 umpires on a regular basis. 4 would be plenty.

Also, despite your view it does help when you work a "pressure" game with someone whom you have worked with before. I understand LL wants to acknowledge the dedicated umpire Volunteers which is the reason they have 6, but IMO they can honor them without having 6 umpires ON THE FIELD. Perhaps an honorable mention or something along those lines.

I do not know what happened this year compared to the last 2 years where in not only my opinion but others as well, the umpiring at the Regionals and LLWS was of good quality.

Perhaps some good quality umpires were chosen but because of work constraints could not make it.

Also, I am going to assume that LL has some kind of meeting with the umpires chosen for the LLWS prior to the games. It simply amzes me the strike 3 mechanic on swinging strikes this year.

One of the FIRST things ever taught to me when doing the plate is Do not say ANYTHING on a swinging strike three. Do not add insult to injury EVERYONE knows the player K'd so simply ring up the out.

Also, on routine Foul balls again I was taught to say Nothing as EVERONE knows it is Foul, yet in the Regionals and LLWS we hear the emphatic FOUL ball.

One would think that this is also being taught at the Regional schools.

Also, LL must have said something to the coaches involved, because thus far there have been some TERRIBLE calls yet the coaches have not even uttered a peep at least not on Nat'l TV.

I think it was the Mexicao Netherlands game where U1 Kicked the call BIG time. Even the announcers had to "bite their tongue" Also, as an umpire I do not care so much about the missed call but the positioning. U1 in a 6 person crew only has to worry about First base so he/she should be able to get in optimal position. The reason thecall was missed was because of bad positioning.

All in all I do not know what happened in the selection process this year compared to the last couple of years. The Regional umpiring was sub-par at best as so far WP is not off too a good start.

Pete Booth