LLWS umpires need to take a page from NFL refs.

[TwoBits]

For the second night in a row, the Pennsylvania team loses a hit and a potential run when a fair ball is ruled foul by one of the SIX umpires. I don't understand why they wouldn't let the play play itself out before going to instant replay to review.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

For the second night in a row, the Pennsylvania team loses a hit and a potential run when a fair ball is ruled foul by one of the SIX umpires. I don't understand why they wouldn't let the play play itself out before going to instant replay to review.

I thought they explained pretty well why they wouldn't allow a "foul" call to be reviewed.

Tim.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I thought they explained pretty well why they wouldn't allow a "foul" call to be reviewed.

Tim.

That they did. The Little League baseball announcers usually do a very good job at that, and much better than your typical home team baseball announcer (and definitely better ANY televised softball announcer!)

[JRutledge]

If they train them better or pay umpires (who are experienced and have knowledge of their field responsibilities) they might not have to worry about replay on these kinds of plays or doing what the NFL does.

Peace

[TwoBits]

Does LL have a training program or do their officials receive training elsewhere?

I can't say all of the umpires I've seen in past years have had little training. Florence Stansbury, the first (only?) woman to have umpired home plate in the LLWS championship game lives 100 miles south of me, and I've had the privilege of working with her in FED baseball. She has also officiating the women's CWS.

(end shameless name drop)

I was pleased to see the officiating crew correctly take a run off the board on a bases loaded, 1 out play in the Canada-Venezuela game. Venezuelan batter hit a hot grounder to third, F5 stepped on third for the second out and threw home in attempt to retire R3, but F2 did not apply the tag, apparently scoring the run. However, R1 had retreated back to first instead of advancing to second. The defense, recognizing the base running error, threw to second and tagged (not forced) R1 between first and second for the third out. While the announcers and the Venezuelan coaches wanted the run to score, the umpires correctly ruled the run did not score since the third out was made by a runner before reaching the base he was forced to.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Does LL have a training program or do their officials receive training elsewhere?

I can't say all of the umpires I've seen in past years have had little training. Florence Stansbury, the first (only?) woman to have umpired home plate in the LLWS championship game lives 100 miles south of me, and I've had the privilege of working with her in FED baseball. She has also officiating the women's CWS.

(end shameless name drop)

I worked with in my state finals in baseball with a umpire that had the previous year worked the LLWS. Not all of these umpires are terrible, but many of the mechanics we see or basic things are not signs of well trained umpires. This play was a suggestion that either no one talked about basic mechanics or this was never discussed in a training or meeting.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I worked with in my state finals in baseball with a umpire that had the previous year worked the LLWS. Not all of these umpires are terrible, but many of the mechanics we see or basic things are not signs of well trained umpires. This play was a suggestion that either no one talked about basic mechanics or this was never discussed in a training or meeting.

Peace

Or someone simply made a mistake. Unfortunately, with so many poorly trained umpires there, the assumption is that every error is because of a lack of training.

The guy that called foul is one of the top umpires in the Western Region and an instructor who owned his mistake on his blog the next day. He said he failed to follow his own teaching -- to know your responsibilities. Personally, I think 6-man causes more problems than it solves -- on any size field. I'd never schedule 6 umpires if I was king.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Or someone simply made a mistake. Unfortunately, with so many poorly trained umpires there, the assumption is that every error is because of a lack of training.

You are right it could of been, but there are too many of these mistakes to chalk it up to just a mistake all the time. Every year we see many big time mistakes that do not happen with even the inexperienced umpires in games I see during the HS season.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The guy that called foul is one of the top umpires in the Western Region and an instructor who owned his mistake on his blog the next day. He said he failed to follow his own teaching -- to know your responsibilities. Personally, I think 6-man causes more problems than it solves -- on any size field. I'd never schedule 6 umpires if I was king.

Honestly I do not know why they use 6 Man on these games to begin with. Too small a field.

I know you are trying to defend the guys you work with, but you are telling me that the current system gets the best available guys working games by making everyone pay their way? That is the best system with national television watching every move and paying for many other things, but the umpires have to pay their way to just work these games? Again, they get what they pay for.

Peace

[rngrck]

Agree, there is no need or room to have 6 umpires on a LL field. I can see only bad things happening with alot of uncertainity with calls.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Does LL have a training program or do their officials receive training elsewhere?

LL has a pretty good training program through their regional centers, but the problem is not enough of the volunteers take advantage of the training. I've been to a half-a-dozen weekend clinics, and have attended their week long session twice. I'm fortunate in that I live only two and a half hours from the Central Region Headquarters and it isn't a huge cost for me to attend the training.

I don't think the mistakes that are made each year at the WS are any more prevalent than the mistakes we seen on the local ball fields each weekend. The mistakes are just amplified exponentially being televised nationally. I also think that we tend to be way too critical on the Internet of the mistakes these officials make in Williamsport. It can't be easy to umpire on national television.

Tim.

[JRutledge]

OK, then what are the problems and what are the solutions? If the training is excellent and people that umpire are perfect, then why do these big mistakes keep happening year after year after year?

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It can't be easy to umpire on national television.

I guess that explains why every plate umpire I've seen this year throws his/her hands up and declares "foul ball" on balls hit directly back to the screen.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, then what are the problems and what are the solutions? If the training is excellent and people that umpire are perfect, then why do these big mistakes keep happening year after year after year?

Peace

You left out the selection process.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I think 6-man causes more problems than it solves -- on any size field.

U5 and U6 can be quite valuable on adult-sized fields. MLB wastes them by positioning them improperly. They belong behind the outfielders.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I was pleased to see the officiating crew correctly take a run off the board on a bases loaded, 1 out play in the Canada-Venezuela game. Venezuelan batter hit a hot grounder to third, F5 stepped on third for the second out and threw home in attempt to retire R3, but F2 did not apply the tag, apparently scoring the run. However, R1 had retreated back to first instead of advancing to second. The defense, recognizing the base running error, threw to second and tagged (not forced) R1 between first and second for the third out. While the announcers and the Venezuelan coaches wanted the run to score, the umpires correctly ruled the run did not score since the third out was made by a runner before reaching the base he was forced to.

IOW, the umpires correctly ruled the run did not score since the third out was a force out.