LLWS umpires need to take a page from NFL refs.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

Nce thought poorly executed. anyway most LL umps I know get all kinds of non monetary concessions like free gear, free food, free registration for their kids to play (no charge)......it's embarrassing that they call themselves volunteers...

They're volunteers. Lets see a hot dog and a coke. $3.00 at the most for working a 2 hour game. That's a volunteer! Lets see free gear the balloon and shin guards that are in the box at the field. A free shirt and hat. The Coaches get that and they're volunteers. Lay off those guys they perform a valuable community service. And no I'm not a "volunteer umpire". I'll donate my services for a charity function but that's the extent of my volunteering. But I do respect the guys that volunteer to officiate games so the kids can play.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

We have different definitions of volunteer, I use the classicla one and so does the LL. No pay for work. Noted that you cut out the part where the LL umpires whose kids get free play with no pay.

Everyone one of these guys have a kid in the league? I don't think so. And so what if their kids play for free. They're volunteers IMHO. Like I said I have a tough time coming down hard on guys who are providing a service so the kids can play. Hell I get paid and quite often I'm offered stuff from the concession stand. So I guess I'm getting paid double.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Everyone one of these guys have a kid in the league? I don't think so. And so what if their kids play for free. They're volunteers IMHO. Like I said I have a tough time coming down hard on guys who are providing a service so the kids can play. Hell I get paid and quite often I'm offered stuff from the concession stand. So I guess I'm getting paid double.

I do not think anyone here has a problem with the umpires, but the system that insists on hiring people that do no more than put on a uniform. They could find or require guys to do more to get to that level. Again, your games are on national TV, not cable access when you get to Williamsport. I am sure the ESPN people are getting paid to be there. Why would the umpires not get paid anything? Not saying you need to get them rich, but respect what they provide to your event.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think anyone here has a problem with the umpires, but the system that insists on hiring people that do no more than put on a uniform. They could find or require guys to do more to get to that level. Again, your games are on national TV, not cable access when you get to Williamsport. I am sure the ESPN people are getting paid to be there. Why would the umpires not get paid anything? Not saying you need to get them rich, but respect what they provide to your event.

Peace

I know you'll probably be surprised, but I disagree with you. Keeping LL volunteer only means there will only be people there that want to be there and not striving simply to earn a paycheck.

Sure, maybe Little League hands out some assignments as if they are gold watches for years served (and sometimes those years served are not in capacity as an umpire), but that happens in a lot of tournaments with "prestigious" assignments. It happens here at the HS state tournament level, where one can only shake a head a some of the people chosen.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I know you'll probably be surprised, but I disagree with you. Keeping LL volunteer only means there will only be people there that want to be there and not striving simply to earn a paycheck.

I'm sure you really didn't mean this as an exclusive "either/or" statement. Certainly you don't believe all umpires who receive compensation are "striving simply to earn a paycheck."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I know you'll probably be surprised, but I disagree with you. Keeping LL volunteer only means there will only be people there that want to be there and not striving simply to earn a paycheck.

Rich, they get paid in many sanctioned games now. I used to work LL several years ago and every game was assigned by a local park district and we were paid every single game. We were not making a killing, but it was something for our time. And I am not talking about paying them for a pay check to get a lot of money, but you cannot take care of their expenses while they are there and put some money in their pocket for the experience? All that does is eliminate those that would like to work but have jobs, and other obligations to eliminate those to want to work because they have to come out of their own pockets to get to Williamsport. And the product on the field reflects that right now.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sure, maybe Little League hands out some assignments as if they are gold watches for years served (and sometimes those years served are not in capacity as an umpire), but that happens in a lot of tournaments with "prestigious" assignments. It happens here at the HS state tournament level, where one can only shake a head a some of the people chosen.

You do not have to take away that part of it completely. But you should have people that are trained better. And at least the State Finals has people that are being chosen by a much more extensive process than I ever see at this level. And a state final does not have world wide eyes. Is it too much to ask for the people to not embarrass your organization every year?

Peace

[LMan]

When you umpire on national TV with ~ 40k in the stands, the 'let's not pick on the volunteers' mantra is gone. Doesn't matter how many years you've given to LL, at that level you better be able to perform and take criticism in equal measure. Asking batters while on ESPN about which one was last at bat is horse-pucky.

IMO, getting a free pass in LL umpiring dies when the TV cameras switch on, the Frosted Flakes commercials start blaring, and Nomar starts jabbering his nonsense.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LMan

When you umpire on national TV with ~ 40k in the stands, the 'let's not pick on the volunteers' mantra is gone. Doesn't matter how many years you've given to LL, at that level you better be able to perform and take criticism in equal measure. Asking batters while on ESPN about which one was last at bat is horse-pucky.

IMO, getting a free pass in LL umpiring dies when the TV cameras switch on, the Frosted Flakes commercials start blaring, and Nomar starts jabbering his nonsense.

And I agree with this. Should I ever be selected to work WP, I offer no excuses for my work and any mistakes I make. I don't want to be called a "volunteer umpire" as if that makes it OK. My calls and my game management must be as good, IMO, as if I was working any other nationally televised game. LL, however, selects the umpires and their selection process doesn't seem to have changed much in the past 10 years (my involvement with Little League is just over 10 years -- I've umpired a lot longer than that). I don't know why we talk about this every year like we expect it to change.

I worked a championship game at a different Little League World Series on an ESPN network on Saturday afternoon. After the first pitch, it was just another game with the exception of the slightly longer than normal inning breaks.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rich, they get paid in many sanctioned games now. I used to work LL several years ago and every game was assigned by a local park district and we were paid every single game. We were not making a killing, but it was something for our time. And I am not talking about paying them for a pay check to get a lot of money, but you cannot take care of their expenses while they are there and put some money in their pocket for the experience? All that does is eliminate those that would like to work but have jobs, and other obligations to eliminate those to want to work because they have to come out of their own pockets to get to Williamsport. And the product on the field reflects that right now.

No, that part of the product does NOT reflect that. You're wrong, completely wrong, IMO..

It's the selection process, not the availability of quality umpires. LL will still select the one year veteran 35 times over whether he's paid or not. It's a gold watch (or more accurately, a LL WS Participant medal) for a number of people every year. Paying LL umpires for these games - what will that solve? It will bring people in that wouldn't work the games without that paycheck, that's all.

I did get some expenses reimbursed, BTW, for my trip to Bangor for the Senior World Series. We got a hotel room, 2 meals a day, and my district gave me money to put towards gas for the trip. Yes, I'm still out a considerable amount of money, but I'm not complaining.

It's part of the gig. I make good money officiating other baseball and other sports and it's my choice whether or not I work LL or not. I know the terms. And I don't think the quality of umpires selected would improve if those guys were paid and if their travel expenses were covered.

BTW, I would pay the travel expenses for the umpires if I was king. The coaches and teams all get flown to the tournaments. As of right now, the only people involved that have to pay to get there are the umpires and that part I *would* fix.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

No, that part of the product does NOT reflect that. You're wrong, completely wrong, IMO..

It's the selection process, not the availability of quality umpires. LL will still select the one year veteran 35 times over whether he's paid or not. It's a gold watch (or more accurately, a LL WS Participant medal) for a number of people every year. Paying LL umpires for these games - what will that solve? It will bring people in that wouldn't work the games without that paycheck, that's all.

I did not expect you to agree, you are a lot closer to that situation than I will ever be. And if they are satisfied with the guy that has worked 35 years but looks like hell, then so be it. But then they will continue to get criticized by folks here and in the media when they cannot get simple plays right.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I did get some expenses reimbursed, BTW, for my trip to Bangor for the Senior World Series. We got a hotel room, 2 meals a day, and my district gave me money to put towards gas for the trip. Yes, I'm still out a considerable amount of money, but I'm not complaining.

In this economy that will eliminate a lot of good people right or wrong.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's part of the gig. I make good money officiating other baseball and other sports and it's my choice whether or not I work LL or not. I know the terms. And I don't think the quality of umpires selected would improve if those guys were paid and if their travel expenses were covered.

We all know the terms when we accept games. I have heard you say you will not accept the terms to work other levels in other sports because the overall cost is not worth it to you. That is all I am saying here, they have eliminated people because they have to choose if working that level is worth the hundreds of dollars (or thousands) to work a game when everyone is getting fat off the TV money and sponsorships.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

BTW, I would pay the travel expenses for the umpires if I was king. The coaches and teams all get flown to the tournaments. As of right now, the only people involved that have to pay to get there are the umpires and that part I *would* fix.

And that is my point. I have to pay my expenses to work a tournament that sponsors are paying millions to the other participants so they can have a tournament. Why not let the kids call balls and strikes if we are so not important in the games? I did not say you had to give every umpire $1000 a game. I said pay them so they do not have to come out of their pocket just to work a game. And because of that there are folks that work LL that have been paid all year long now say "Why bother" in the biggest games of the year for that organization. Something is wrong with that IMO.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DeejABlu

We have different definitions of volunteer, I use the classicla one and so does the LL. No pay for work. Noted that you cut out the part where the LL umpires whose kids get free play with no pay.

I guess that umpiring Little League at an overall loss isn't enough for you (and I did so this year, despite some reimbursements for expenses I received).

I did this community service despite plenty of opportunity to work adult baseball, Legion, Babe Ruth, and plenty of other summer baseball.

Never mind, you're just a troll who will be banned again very soon.