Pickle obstruction with Batter runner advancing

[Robert E. Harrison]

Fed rules, R2 and batter hits ground ball to F4 and he throws to F6 to get R2 in pickle. Obstruction called on F6 with Batter runner half way between 1st and 2nd headed to 2nd when obstruction is called. R2 gets 3rd.
Does the batter runner get 2nd or back to 1st.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

Fed rules, R2 and batter hits ground ball to F4 and he throws to F6 to get R2 in pickle. Obstruction called on F6 with Batter runner half way between 1st and 2nd headed to 2nd when obstruction is called. R2 gets 3rd.
Does the batter runner get 2nd or back to 1st.

Wherever he ends up because the ball remains live.

[Robert E. Harrison]

Obstruction was called just before that tag was applied by F6.
Batter runner had not reach 2nd at the time of the tag.

[Rich Ives]

In FED the ball does not become dead until playing action is over so you just let things play out and make any awards after that.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In FED the ball does not become dead until playing action is over so you just let things play out and make any awards after that.

Right, Rich. Only the obstructed runner is guaranteed 1 base advance. Other runners end up where they end up.

[Robert E. Harrison]

On the tag for the 3rd out, the defense (and sometimes the offense) is running off the field. How do you handle that?

[LMan]

Rule 1147.2.10 (FED) says either team running off the field negates any base award, as this is clearly beyond the umpires' control.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

On the tag for the 3rd out, the defense (and sometimes the offense) is running off the field. How do you handle that?

By emphasizing the obstruction and indicating the runner is not out.

In the OP, I'm guessing the umpire called time. In that case, he needs to pull out the "IFU" rule and rectify the situation.

[DG]

I recall one in a FED game a couple years ago, R2 got into a pickle on a ground ball to F6, after couple throws he was obstructed going toward 3b and I called out "that's obstruction" and pointed (I know that's not the FED mechanic, but it's much more effective). Since he had not been tagged he kept up the pickle and after several more throws and maybe 15 seconds go by they tagged him diving back toward 2b, where B1 stood.

Defensive coach was none too happy when I awarded R2 3b, and left B1 at 2b, as I explained FED live ball and award to him.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by DG

I recall one in a FED game a couple years ago, R2 got into a pickle on a ground ball to F6, after couple throws he was obstructed going toward 3b and I called out "that's obstruction" and pointed (I know that's not the FED mechanic, but it's much more effective). Since he had not been tagged he kept up the pickle and after several more throws and maybe 15 seconds go by they tagged him diving back toward 2b, where B1 stood.

Defensive coach was none too happy when I awarded R2 3b, and left B1 at 2b, as I explained FED live ball and award to him.

Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

well, if it had been interference instead of OBS, and OBR instead of FED, you'd send the runner back.

I don't really blame the coach for asking about this one -- it's unusual enough that I don't think most non-umpires would know the rule -- only that they were (again!) getting "screwed"

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

well, if it had been interference instead of OBS, and OBR instead of FED, you'd send the runner back.

I don't really blame the coach for asking about this one -- it's unusual enough that I don't think most non-umpires would know the rule -- only that they were (again!) getting "screwed"

Only on int not obs.

[DG]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

Well, I don't know, unless he was thinking OBR. He first asked why I did not call it immediately, I told him I did. He wanted the ball to be dead, maybe he was thinking OBR, why in a FED game I don't know. I told him it was FED rule to allow play to continue, one or other player might throw the ball into CF or the dugout and runner score. I think he was just upset that they executed a 20 second pickle with 6 or 7 throws and get nothing out of it, and B1 ended up on 2b. And, I suspect he did not know the rule.

The obs happened near 3b, and the 3b coach (HC) was looking directly at me when I made the call, so he was not complaining at all about the obs, or the continuing pickle. I did not watch him because I was watching the pickle but I suspect he was motioning for BR to take 2b.

[DG]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Only on int not obs.

In OBR the ball would be dead at point of obs (type 1), runner awarded 3b and BR back to 1b, if he had not arrived at 2b when ball went dead, which he had not.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by DG

In OBR the ball would be dead at point of obs (type 1), runner awarded 3b and BR back to 1b, if he had not arrived at 2b when ball went dead, which he had not.

Not quite right. You send the BR back to 1B if, in your judgement, he wouldn't have reached 2B absent the obstruction.