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-   -   Pickle obstruction with Batter runner advancing (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/76538-pickle-obstruction-batter-runner-advancing.html)

Robert E. Harrison Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:03am

Pickle obstruction with Batter runner advancing
 
Fed rules, R2 and batter hits ground ball to F4 and he throws to F6 to get R2 in pickle. Obstruction called on F6 with Batter runner half way between 1st and 2nd headed to 2nd when obstruction is called. R2 gets 3rd.
Does the batter runner get 2nd or back to 1st.

bob jenkins Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison (Post 777251)
Fed rules, R2 and batter hits ground ball to F4 and he throws to F6 to get R2 in pickle. Obstruction called on F6 with Batter runner half way between 1st and 2nd headed to 2nd when obstruction is called. R2 gets 3rd.
Does the batter runner get 2nd or back to 1st.

Wherever he ends up because the ball remains live.

Robert E. Harrison Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22am

When is the ball dead?
 
Obstruction was called just before that tag was applied by F6.
Batter runner had not reach 2nd at the time of the tag.

Rich Ives Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:28am

In FED the ball does not become dead until playing action is over so you just let things play out and make any awards after that.

ozzy6900 Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 777258)
In FED the ball does not become dead until playing action is over so you just let things play out and make any awards after that.

Right, Rich. Only the obstructed runner is guaranteed 1 base advance. Other runners end up where they end up.

Robert E. Harrison Tue Aug 02, 2011 01:26pm

What if there were 2 outs?
 
On the tag for the 3rd out, the defense (and sometimes the offense) is running off the field. How do you handle that?

LMan Tue Aug 02, 2011 02:31pm

Rule 1147.2.10 (FED) says either team running off the field negates any base award, as this is clearly beyond the umpires' control.

bob jenkins Tue Aug 02, 2011 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison (Post 777294)
On the tag for the 3rd out, the defense (and sometimes the offense) is running off the field. How do you handle that?

By emphasizing the obstruction and indicating the runner is not out.

In the OP, I'm guessing the umpire called time. In that case, he needs to pull out the "IFU" rule and rectify the situation.

DG Wed Aug 03, 2011 05:11am

I recall one in a FED game a couple years ago, R2 got into a pickle on a ground ball to F6, after couple throws he was obstructed going toward 3b and I called out "that's obstruction" and pointed (I know that's not the FED mechanic, but it's much more effective). Since he had not been tagged he kept up the pickle and after several more throws and maybe 15 seconds go by they tagged him diving back toward 2b, where B1 stood.

Defensive coach was none too happy when I awarded R2 3b, and left B1 at 2b, as I explained FED live ball and award to him.

zm1283 Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 777499)
I recall one in a FED game a couple years ago, R2 got into a pickle on a ground ball to F6, after couple throws he was obstructed going toward 3b and I called out "that's obstruction" and pointed (I know that's not the FED mechanic, but it's much more effective). Since he had not been tagged he kept up the pickle and after several more throws and maybe 15 seconds go by they tagged him diving back toward 2b, where B1 stood.

Defensive coach was none too happy when I awarded R2 3b, and left B1 at 2b, as I explained FED live ball and award to him.

Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

bob jenkins Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 777595)
Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

well, if it had been interference instead of OBS, and OBR instead of FED, you'd send the runner back.

I don't really blame the coach for asking about this one -- it's unusual enough that I don't think most non-umpires would know the rule -- only that they were (again!) getting "screwed" ;)

UmpTTS43 Wed Aug 03, 2011 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 777610)
well, if it had been interference instead of OBS, and OBR instead of FED, you'd send the runner back.

I don't really blame the coach for asking about this one -- it's unusual enough that I don't think most non-umpires would know the rule -- only that they were (again!) getting "screwed" ;)

Only on int not obs.

DG Wed Aug 03, 2011 07:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 777595)
Where did he think the runners should be? First and third? I would have wanted to ask where it says you can un-reward bases (Sending B/R back to first).

Well, I don't know, unless he was thinking OBR. He first asked why I did not call it immediately, I told him I did. He wanted the ball to be dead, maybe he was thinking OBR, why in a FED game I don't know. I told him it was FED rule to allow play to continue, one or other player might throw the ball into CF or the dugout and runner score. I think he was just upset that they executed a 20 second pickle with 6 or 7 throws and get nothing out of it, and B1 ended up on 2b. And, I suspect he did not know the rule.

The obs happened near 3b, and the 3b coach (HC) was looking directly at me when I made the call, so he was not complaining at all about the obs, or the continuing pickle. I did not watch him because I was watching the pickle but I suspect he was motioning for BR to take 2b.

DG Wed Aug 03, 2011 07:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43 (Post 777639)
Only on int not obs.

In OBR the ball would be dead at point of obs (type 1), runner awarded 3b and BR back to 1b, if he had not arrived at 2b when ball went dead, which he had not.

celebur Wed Aug 03, 2011 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 777720)
In OBR the ball would be dead at point of obs (type 1), runner awarded 3b and BR back to 1b, if he had not arrived at 2b when ball went dead, which he had not.

Not quite right. You send the BR back to 1B if, in your judgement, he wouldn't have reached 2B absent the obstruction.


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