Hudson makes catch, KO'ed

[Rich]

I had a player knocked out in a Legion game over the fourth of July.

Two outfielders collided. Bases empty, I was the plate umpire and I busted out to get a good look at the catch. The fielder that was knocked out had the ball in his glove. At that point, I called the batter out and called for the coach to get out to his player. The other outfielder retrieved the ball from the other fielder's glove, but by then the coach was already near the outfielder and the out long recorded.

I know the rules/guidelines for a catch as well as anyone, but there's an old saying about picking up the wrong side of the stick, too.

[rbmartin]

I completely agree.
While the referenced Hudson play probably did not meet the "letter of the law", he obviously gained and maintained control of the ball throughout the play. Never even a hint of bobbling or juggling. I think common sense has to be applied, especially when player injuries are involved.

[jicecone]

I agree that I am calling and out and "Time" in these situations. Now what is everyone doing with runners that may be on base and are eligible to advance after the catch?

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I agree that I am calling and out and "Time" in these situations. Now what is everyone doing with runners that may be on base and are eligible to advance after the catch?

In this case there were already 2 outs so the point is moot. If there were less than 2 outs and runners on base (we had R2 & R3 in this case) I would hold off on calling time until runners have had their chance to tag-up and advance, unless there was a players life was in immediate or imminent danger. In this case, a 5 second delay would have added no real risk to the player.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

In this case there were already 2 outs so the point is moot. If there were less than 2 outs and runners on base (we had R2 & R3 in this case) I would hold off on calling time until runners have had their chance to tag-up and advance, unless there was a players life was in immediate or imminent danger. In this case, a 5 second delay would have added no real risk to the player.

Two solutions. First, Jim Evans advise to change AND to OR between the control and voluntary release parts of the catch definition would solve a lot of problems. Secondly, I would not like to be in the umpire's shoes who allowed a 5-10 second delay for completion of a play when a player was on the ground unconscious - seconds could matter with airway obstruction, cardiac arrythmia, etc. What if a bat shattered while the ball was hit fair and a piece impaled the pitcher or the on deck hitter in the neck - seconds matter in that case. If common sense judgment requires time to be called, do so. Handle runner placement as you would on delayed obstruction

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Two solutions. First, Jim Evans advise to change AND to OR between the control and voluntary release parts of the catch definition would solve a lot of problems. Secondly, I would not like to be in the umpire's shoes who allowed a 5-10 second delay for completion of a play when a player was on the ground unconscious - seconds could matter with airway obstruction, cardiac arrythmia, etc. What if a bat shattered while the ball was hit fair and a piece impaled the pitcher or the on deck hitter in the neck - seconds matter in that case. If common sense judgment requires time to be called, do so. Handle runner placement as you would on delayed obstruction

My God.... enough is enough!

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

My God.... enough is enough!

Whatever, Ozzy. Your curmudgeon schtick is approaching the annoyance level of even my BS.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Two solutions. First, Jim Evans advise to change AND to OR between the control and voluntary release parts of the catch definition would solve a lot of problems. Secondly, I would not like to be in the umpire's shoes who allowed a 5-10 second delay for completion of a play when a player was on the ground unconscious - seconds could matter with airway obstruction, cardiac arrythmia, etc. What if a bat shattered while the ball was hit fair and a piece impaled the pitcher or the on deck hitter in the neck - seconds matter in that case. If common sense judgment requires time to be called, do so. Handle runner placement as you would on delayed obstruction

For some reason I keep getting the image of John Astin on the TV show "Night Court saying", "but I'm feeling much better now".....

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Two solutions. First, Jim Evans advise to change AND to OR between the control and voluntary release parts of the catch definition would solve a lot of problems. Secondly, I would not like to be in the umpire's shoes who allowed a 5-10 second delay for completion of a play when a player was on the ground unconscious - seconds could matter with airway obstruction, cardiac arrythmia, etc. What if a bat shattered while the ball was hit fair and a piece impaled the pitcher or the on deck hitter in the neck - seconds matter in that case. If common sense judgment requires time to be called, do so. Handle runner placement as you would on delayed obstruction

Bravo!!! What insight!

We haven't had this level of intellect on this board since FitUmp and Uninterested Ump enthralled us with their captivating commentary.