Hudson makes catch, KO'ed

[Larry1953]

Padres F4 Orlando Hudson made a sensational diving catch of a foul pop today (7/21). He immediately slid head first into the wall and knocked himself completely unconscious. Jim Evans says he has a problem with the definition of a catch because it says a fielder must have [control of his body] AND voluntary /intentional release. Evans said it would be better to rewrite the rule with OR instead. I think there was a case like this in Knotty Problems of Baseball(?) where in the olden days a teammate would take the ball out of the KO'ed player's glove to get around the voluntary release part. In today's game U1 signalled out without any hesitation and then motioned for assistance. Thank goodness Hudson is OK after his KO with no neck injury.

[APG]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but here's a link to the video of the catch. Hudson was reported to have movement of his arms and speaking to teammates before being carted off the field.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | SD@FLA: Hudson carted off field after a great play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but here's a link to the video of the catch. Hudson was reported to have movement of his arms and speaking to teammates before being carted off the field.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | SD@FLA: Hudson carted off field after a great play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Catch or No catch? [Archive] - Forums

This was a thread from another site, probably with many of the same guys who post here that had no problem congenially discussing "my point". There were many who felt that a ball was still "in flight" even though it was firmly in the glove of an unconscious player and that the catch is only completed once the ball has been taken out of the glove by another fielder (who does not drop it while doing so).

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Catch or No catch? [Archive] - Forums

This was a thread from another site, probably with many of the same guys who post here that had no problem congenially discussing "my point". There were many who felt that a ball was still "in flight" even though it was firmly in the glove of an unconscious player and that the catch is only completed once the ball has been taken out of the glove by another fielder (who does not drop it while doing so).

There was another thread about a fielder knocking himself out making a catch? Or was it just a discussion about when a runner could leave a base if a fly ball was touched by one fielder and caught by another?

I remember a Cubs infielder getting knocked cold on a pop-up a few years back and the ball was still in his glove when the ambulance left the park. You saying that wasn't a catch?

Are you such a nut case on the strict interpretaton of things in non-baseball matters? Have you ever rolled through a stop sign, for example? Driven a "couple" of MPHs over the limit? When making cookies how much time do you spend making sure all the ingredient measurements are perfect? Is your oven temperature exactly 350 degrees F? How tall are you to the nearest millimeter?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

There was another thread about a fielder knocking himself out making a catch? Or was it just a discussion about when a runner could leave a base if a fly ball was touched by one fielder and caught by another?

I remember a Cubs infielder getting knocked cold on a pop-up a few years back and the ball was still in his glove when the ambulance left the park. You saying that wasn't a catch?

Are you such a nut case on the strict interpretaton of things in non-baseball matters? Have you ever rolled through a stop sign, for example? Driven a "couple" of MPHs over the limit? When making cookies how much time do you spend making sure all the ingredient measurements are perfect? Is your oven temperature exactly 350 degrees F? How tall are you to the nearest millimeter?

Rich, the link I provided was from 2008 and you had several posts in the thread. Reading through that thread several members seemed to acknowledge that Jim Evans taught at his school that the ball was still "in flight" when it was in an unconscious fielder's glove and the catch was only completed when the ball was taken out of the glove by a teammate. Now, it may not be as much fun as making gratuitous slaps at me, but discussing that "point" is probably within the scope of this forum.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I remember a Cubs infielder getting knocked cold on a pop-up a few years back and the ball was still in his glove when the ambulance left the park. You saying that wasn't a catch?

Slightly off-topic, but FYI it was Hee Seop Choi and he collided with Kerry Wood.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Catch or No catch? [Archive] - Forums

This was a thread from another site, probably with many of the same guys who post here that had no problem congenially discussing "my point". There were many who felt that a ball was still "in flight" even though it was firmly in the glove of an unconscious player and that the catch is only completed once the ball has been taken out of the glove by another fielder (who does not drop it while doing so).

Call that a no-catch and watch both teams tear your head off.

Sometimes common sense is available for use.

[briancurtin]

This should have been my first post in the thread, but anyway...
I actually had this situation on my first series of the year. I'm in a deep B, short pop up behind the mound, F5 and F4 both running all out for it. F5 dives, catches the ball and catches F4's knee right between the eyes. That's a catch, out, time, bring the trainers out. Two ambulances later, game on.

U3 happened to see F5's eyes roll back in his head so it got scary for a minute.

Just call the out.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

... but discussing that "point" is probably within the scope of this forum.

Of course it is, and your opinion is the correct one. Some posters just haven't realized the flaws in their thought process yet.

Please, post some more old threads and situations, accompanied, of course, with your thoughtful analysis.

[Larry1953]

Game 7 of the World Series, bottom of the ninth, R2, no outs, game tied. The Hudson play occurs. R2 tags up to go to third. Seeing that everyone is distracted by the unconscious player, R2 takes a wide turn at 3B. F3 becomes alert that he had best do something or the WS is over. He reaches into F4's glove but his first try muffs the ball to the ground. He finally picks the ball up and throws to F2 but it gets past the catcher and R2 scores the winning run. Common sense would dictate the VT manager to argue that it was "no catch" which would make it just a foul ball with R2 being sent back to 2B.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Game 7 of the World Series, bottom of the ninth, R2, no outs, game tied. The Hudson play occurs. R2 tags up to go to third. Seeing that everyone is distracted by the unconscious player, R2 takes a wide turn at 3B. F3 becomes alert that he had best do something or the WS is over. He reaches into F4's glove but his first try muffs the ball to the ground. He finally picks the ball up and throws to F2 but it gets past the catcher and R2 scores the winning run. Common sense would dictate the VT manager to argue that it was "no catch" which would make it just a foul ball with R2 being sent back to 2B.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!!

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!!

Thanks (rolls eyes), I thought it was too.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

There was another thread about a fielder knocking himself out making a catch? Or was it just a discussion about when a runner could leave a base if a fly ball was touched by one fielder and caught by another?

I remember a Cubs infielder getting knocked cold on a pop-up a few years back and the ball was still in his glove when the ambulance left the park. You saying that wasn't a catch?

Are you such a nut case on the strict interpretaton of things in non-baseball matters? Have you ever rolled through a stop sign, for example? Driven a "couple" of MPHs over the limit? When making cookies how much time do you spend making sure all the ingredient measurements are perfect? Is your oven temperature exactly 350 degrees F? How tall are you to the nearest millimeter?

Well, come to think of it, I bought a digital BBQ thermometer for grilling steaks this summer. I stick the probe in and when it gets to 145' it comes out just about perfect. 140', a little too rare. 150', too well done.

[rbmartin]

Come on guys. Quit insulting and tormenting each other and discuss the question at hand.

After reviewing the provided replay, did the fielder meet the following criteria specified in Rule 2.00 (Catch) "In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional."? Keep in mind the Rule 2.00 (Catch) Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground.

[Rich]

I had a player knocked out in a Legion game over the fourth of July.

Two outfielders collided. Bases empty, I was the plate umpire and I busted out to get a good look at the catch. The fielder that was knocked out had the ball in his glove. At that point, I called the batter out and called for the coach to get out to his player. The other outfielder retrieved the ball from the other fielder's glove, but by then the coach was already near the outfielder and the out long recorded.

I know the rules/guidelines for a catch as well as anyone, but there's an old saying about picking up the wrong side of the stick, too.