Yankees @ Blue Jays

[UmpJM]

Rich,

I believe the "no call" mechanic was correct in this sitch because the throw took F3 off the base and there was, therefore, no tag of 1B to rule on.

Had the throw simply been late and F3 had kept his foot on the bag, then I believe the safe mechanic is called for.

JM

[BSUmp16]

Not sure this is correct. If F3's foot was on the bag but the throw had been late and the B/R reached 1st before the tag of the base, but had not touched 1st base, wouldn't you make the safe call? I think once the B/R acquired 1st, the safe call mechanic should have been given regardless of the proximity of F3.

[Larry1953]

Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Let's say there was exactly the same play but with R3, same two out situation. The run would still not count, correct?

What does 4.09(a)(1) say?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What does 4.09(a)(1) say?

True that. Rule 7.08(e) says the runner is out if he OR the base is tagged BEFORE he touches the base. It was confusing why Angel Hernandez did not signal out when Posada made a clear and distinct tag of first while looking at him. Things like "attained base", "relaxed action", "continuous action" are not mentioned in the rule book.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

True that. Rule 7.08(e) says the runner is out if he OR the base is tagged BEFORE he touches the base. It was confusing why Angel Hernandez did not signal out when Posada made a clear and distinct tag of first while looking at him. Things like "attained base", "relaxed action", "continuous action" are not mentioned in the rule book.

Does every posted legal speed sign say "if you get caught exceeding this speed limit in excess of a certain amount of mph (as determined by the local authorities), then you may receive a ticket, fine, etc."

Someday or one day, or if ever the world gets perfect, were just going to have to go back and rewrite everything so it is crystal clear for everyone. Then again everything will be perfect and everyone will know everything and we won't have to.

Sometimes you just have to umpire. You should try it first and quit being a pain in the arse because you have no life.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

True that. Rule 7.08(e) says the runner is out if he OR the base is tagged BEFORE he touches the base. It was confusing why Angel Hernandez did not signal out when Posada made a clear and distinct tag of first while looking at him. Things like "attained base", "relaxed action", "continuous action" are not mentioned in the rule book.

One cannot possibly hope to learn American law if one only studies constitutions, statutes and regulations. In fact, the majority of American law is learned from judicial cases (aka "case law") which interpret the statutes, constitutions, regulations, etc.

Likewise, if one only studies the rule book one is missing all of the interpretations (official and otherwise) of those rules found in the various umpire's manuals. (see major league baseball umpire's manual (MLBUM), PBUC Manual, J/R, JEA, etc.)

[Larry1953]

So Angel Hernandez made the proper call when he did not signal the runner who had "attained" first base but had not touched it when Posada stepped on the bag? A literal reading of the rules says a runner can be retired that way by either the "force mechanic" or an appeal. But I get your point.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Rich,

I believe the "no call" mechanic was correct in this sitch because the throw took F3 off the base and there was, therefore, no tag of 1B to rule on.

Had the throw simply been late and F3 had kept his foot on the bag, then I believe the safe mechanic is called for.

JM

If the runner misses the bases you still need to give a signal to let him know if he beat the ball or not.. so in this video Angel should have given a safe as he beat the ball/ posada didnt touch the base... and there should have been a safe , off the bag mechanic... after this the defense can appeal the runner missing the base ( better do this before he reaches 1st)..but what can I say..LOL

[SAump]

Apparently from ESPN, the original situation played out when Mr Bobby Valentine was a manager. AH made the correct NO call as Posada appealed from 1st base. The runner must be tagged while off base.