Dead ball strike-out vs hit batsman

[UMP 64]

Summer game last night. College teams.

Count 3-2, pitch is thrown. Batter "starts" to swing at pitch, moves hands 6" - 8" beginning to swing. Stops short of swinging "strike", did not "offer" cross plate, break wrist or any of the typical things we look for in a check swing. He did not get that far.
Pitched ball hits his hands, PU calls "Dead Ball", hit batter, go to first. Def. coach asks why it was not a dead ball strike. PU says he did not swing at the pitch, he held back. PU asked me (base ump) if he went? I went to PU and said (being in "C") I didn't think that he went far enough to be a strike, but his hands & bat did move early in the swing/pitch.
PU ended up awarding batter 1st, saying the batter did not "strike", held back on the pitch.
Comments?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

Summer game last night. College teams.

Count 3-2, pitch is thrown. Batter "starts" to swing at pitch, moves hands 6" - 8" beginning to swing. Stops short of swinging "strike", did not "offer" cross plate, break wrist or any of the typical things we look for in a check swing. He did not get that far.
Pitched ball hits his hands, PU calls "Dead Ball", hit batter, go to first. Def. coach asks why it was not a dead ball strike. PU says he did not swing at the pitch, he held back. PU asked me (base ump) if he went? I went to PU and said (being in "C") I didn't think that he went far enough to be a strike, but his hands & bat did move early in the swing/pitch.
PU ended up awarding batter 1st, saying the batter did not "strike", held back on the pitch.
Comments?

If he didn't offer (strike) at the pitch it's a HBP. What's the controversy?

[Ump Rube]

Good call. Not in strike zone and no swing, so he gets a free trip to first.

Even if you say that he did not get out of the way of the pitch it is still recorded as what it was, Ball 4. Call it a dead-ball walk if you want.

[UMP 64]

The batter started to swing, and I think the Def.coach did not realize he "held" or did not swing to commit a strike. Simply put, must the batter commit a strike to be a dead ball strike? Maybe I answered my own question?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

The batter started to swing, and I think the Def.coach did not realize he "held" or did not swing to commit a strike. Simply put, must the batter commit a strike to be a dead ball strike? Maybe I answered my own question?

So I guesss the lightbulb lit?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

The batter started to swing, and I think the Def.coach did not realize he "held" or did not swing to commit a strike. Simply put, must the batter commit a strike to be a dead ball strike? Maybe I answered my own question?

It's the same as any other "checked swing" (or whatever the correct wording in the book is). What would you have ruled if the ball hadn't hit him?

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

PU asked me (base ump) if he went? I went to PU and said (being in "C") I didn't think that he went far enough to be a strike, but his hands & bat did move early in the swing/pitch.
Comments?

Plate ump came to you, asked if he went, answer should be NO.

I know this is a HTBT, but a simple NO would be better. Too much conversation or a lengthy conference also looks bad.

[ozzy6900]

Your decision should be no different if you are in A, B or C. Either the batter offers at the pitch or he does not. Please don't say that you don't have a good look in C because we don't want another 10 page discussion about this. Just remember, you are judging, every time the batter swings, as to whether he offered at the pitch or not. Your partner is counting on you to be there for help no matter what position you are in as the BU so when he comes to you, it's either "Yes, he went" or "No, he didn't go" with the proper signals.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

Stops short of swinging "strike", did not "offer" cross plate, break wrist or any of the typical things we look for in a check swing.


Comments?

What on Earth does the plate have to do with this? Or the wrists?

Can we put two behind the ear of both these myths right now?

Honestly fellas, that's how these things get perpetuated. If umpires are saying the bat didn't cross the plate, what chance do have out there?

[jicecone]

Oz is exactly right here. When you start analyzing what you thought you saw or didn't see, and then discussing it, you are contributing to the uncertainty about your calls and given the DC more to argue about.

PU - Did he go? BU - No he did not.

Short and sweet and to the point. It also demonstrates to the DC that you were on top of the call and had no doubt about. Period.

[JJ]

This is a similar situation to a batter who is trying to bunt but gets hit by the pitch - it's not unusual for the defensive team to ask for an appeal on the bunt attempt even though the batter gets drilled in the chest with the pitch....it looks goofy so they ask.....but that doesn't mean he offered at the pitch, even if the bat doesn't OBVIOUSLY get "pulled back".

JJ

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by JJ

This is a similar situation to a batter who is trying to bunt but gets hit by the pitch - it's not unusual for the defensive team to ask for an appeal on the bunt attempt even though the batter gets drilled in the chest with the pitch....it looks goofy so they ask.....but that doesn't mean he offered at the pitch, even if the bat doesn't OBVIOUSLY get "pulled back".

JJ

I think I get your inference that the bat does not have to be pulled back on a bunt attempt. Is that what you mean?

[Tim C]

"I think I get your inference that the bat does not have to be pulled back on a bunt attempt. Is that what you mean?"

Well, that is the rule.

FED even has it in the Case Book.

T

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Well, that is the rule.

FED even has it in the Case Book.

T

I believe the original play considered college age athletes. Maybe they were goverened by Fed rules for this contest but most just spent the last year with the new half swing (not a checked swing) definition from the NCAA. Rule 2-18 states: a half swing shall be called a strike if the barrel head of the bat passes the batter's front hip. Previously, the rule stated "the front edge of home plate" but that neglected the batter's position in the box. The 2011 NCAA Baseball guide covered this on page 13.

The Major League Baseball rulebook doesn't contain an official definition for a checked swing; it is the decision of the umpire presiding. Here is what the Red Book states: "The umpire’s decision on a check swing shall be based entirely on his judgment as to whether or not the batter struck at the pitch."

In Jim Evans Umpire Mechanics Book:
Half-swing describes the batter’s action when he interrupts his attempt to hit a pitched ball. If the batter interrupts his swing after starting the forward motion of the bat but before committing to the pitch, the half-swing shall be adjudged a ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, he went too far and committed to the pitch but missed, it shall be considered a swinging strike.

"Was it a swing?" varies from umpire to umpire and game to game.

[Tim C]

All you write is very accurate.

I was only talking about "not pulling the bat back" during a bunting situation.

All rules codes are the same, in that, you must offer at a pitch while bunting to be a strike.

A batter does not need "pull the bat back."

T