Dropped 3rd Strike - Dead Ball?

[Spence]

R1, catcher drops 3rd strike.

Is this a dead ball?

If runners take off when they see the ball dropped, do they return?

What if it was a straight steal?

[SRW]

Spence:

We need more info:

How many outs?
Where are the runners (i.e.: was there a runner on 1B?)

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by Spence
R1, catcher drops 3rd strike.

1..Is this a dead ball?

2..If runners take off when they see the ball dropped, do they return?

3..What if it was a straight steal?

A1..A third strike not caught is dead ONLY if it goes out-of-play.

A2..Only if they're stupid.

A3..Stealing has nothing to do with an uncaught third strike, and vice-versa.

Bob

[Spence]

Runners were on first and second with less than 2 outs. Batter struck out, catcher dropped 3rd strike, runner started to take off for first not knowing she was automatically out. Umpire calls 'dead ball' since first was occupied. I was wondering if that was a 'softball only' rule as I'm new to fastpitch and base everything off of baseball rules.

In another earlier game, same situation and the catcher overthrows first(she did not know the batter was automatically out). Umpire told runners they had to return to their bases as of TOP. I'm assuming that was incorrect as well.

[Chess Ref]

I believe in the D3K SITCHS. I have read that the umpire should announce in a strong and loud voice """BAtter is OUT". Since I read that I haven't had that come up yet. OTH I am thinking the catcher needs to be aware of the game SITCH.

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by Spence
Runners were on first and second with less than 2 outs. Batter struck out, catcher dropped 3rd strike, runner started to take off for first not knowing she was automatically out. Umpire calls 'dead ball' since first was occupied. I was wondering if that was a 'softball only' rule as I'm new to fastpitch and base everything off of baseball rules.

In another earlier game, same situation and the catcher overthrows first(she did not know the batter was automatically out). Umpire told runners they had to return to their bases as of TOP. I'm assuming that was incorrect as well.

With less than 2 outs, batter is out due to first base being occupied at TOP. Unless the ball goes out of play or is a dead ball strike, the ball remains live and runners on base are free to advance at their own risk (I believe the correct term is "with liability to be put out").

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Spence
Runners were on first and second with less than 2 outs. Batter struck out, catcher dropped 3rd strike, runner started to take off for first not knowing she was automatically out. Umpire calls 'dead ball' since first was occupied. I was wondering if that was a 'softball only' rule as I'm new to fastpitch and base everything off of baseball rules.

In another earlier game, same situation and the catcher overthrows first(she did not know the batter was automatically out). Umpire told runners they had to return to their bases as of TOP. I'm assuming that was incorrect as well.

Should not have been a deadball in either case. The onus is on both the defense and the offense to know the situation. We can't reward stupidity. In the second situation, I am going to watch the runners round the bases and think to myself, "tsk, tsk, tsk."

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Spence
Runners were on first and second with less than 2 outs. Batter struck out, catcher dropped 3rd strike, runner started to take off for first not knowing she was automatically out. Umpire calls 'dead ball' since first was occupied. I was wondering if that was a 'softball only' rule as I'm new to fastpitch and base everything off of baseball rules.

It is not a softball rule, either. He can say "Batter OUT", but the ball is live.

Originally posted by Spence
In another earlier game, same situation and the catcher overthrows first(she did not know the batter was automatically out). Umpire told runners they had to return to their bases as of TOP. I'm assuming that was incorrect as well.

You are correct. The runners are allowed to advance at risk.

[TwoBits]

Originally posted by bluezebra

A1..A third strike not caught is dead ONLY if it goes out-of-play.

A2..Only if they're stupid.

A3..Stealing has nothing to do with an uncaught third strike, and vice-versa.

Bob

Just wanted to add that an uncaught third strike is also dead if the pitch hits the batter.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by TwoBits
Just wanted to add that an uncaught third strike is also dead if the pitch hits the batter.

While technically true, the third strike rule is not invoked in this situation since the ball is dead immediately when the pitch hits the batter, so the ball is never caught nor uncaught. Batter is merely out.

[MrRabbit]

Dakota

This would be called a swinging third strike?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by MrRabbit
Dakota

This would be called a swinging third strike?

Yup, & a dead ball.

[TwoBits]

Originally posted by Dakota

Yup, & a dead ball.

ANY third strike, including one that hits the batter and the pitch is in the strike zone, i.e., she is leaning over the plate or a wicked curve hits her after it crosses the plate.

And I hate using the term "dropped third strike". Too many people assume that strike 3 in the dirt but cleanly scooped by the catcher is not a "dropped third strike", but is definitely an "uncaught third strike".