LL All Stars & Travel Team Question

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The poster cares. If you don't just don't participate in the thread.

I'm guessing that this vitriol was because it is a LL question. If it was a similar question about NFHS baseball, the response wouldn't have been as strong.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

This is a question asked & answered on active.com's forum but I'd like to thrwo this out here too.

Can a LL All Star participate in a travel team at the same time as being on the LL All Star team?

The answer on active.com was before 2008- no, but now (2009 forward)- yes.

Agreed?

Correct.

And don't go looking for a specific rule. It's legal because it isn't banned.

BTW, it was only banned for 2-3 years. It wasn't "always" before 2008.

[Tim C]

As noted earlier: who could possibly care on an umpire board.

I guess any idiot can post. I prove that every time I post.

T

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tim C

As noted earlier: who could possibly care on an umpire board.

I guess any idiot can post. I prove that every time I post.

T

This is an officiating board. Since when are the only officials at a game umpires?

I don't have an answer to this question and I simply don't care what the answer is. But why do I have to tell everyone that? Someone (such as Rich Ives) can answer the question and the thread dies a natural death. Instead, some unnecessary vitriol is thrown towards the OP and the forum proves, once again, that we're not a welcoming place.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is an officiating board. Since when are the only officials at a game umpires?

Then the real problem here seems to be the name of the forum. It should not imply that administrative minutia should be discussed as well as real life situations that come up during sporting events.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tim C

As noted earlier: who could possibly care on an umpire board.

I guess any idiot can post. I prove that every time I post.

T

In a good many LL organizations, the UIC is a board member also.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In a good many LL organizations, the UIC is a board member also.

Then he knows the eligibility rules in his role as the board member, not in his role as an umpire. Your statement that "a good umpire knows all the rules" is, in the context of eligibility rules, absurd. You've categorically implied that any umpire who does not know the eligibility rules for any game he works is simply not "a good umpire."

[Tim C]

"This site is about officiating, not just on-the-field umpiring, . . . "

Wrong.

The original link to this page was "eumpire.com".

"Opposing manager comes to you and says "That sub can't play because he's on a travel team".

"So you can either know the rule (actually the lack of one) and it's history and tell him OR you can just stand there with a blank look and then call the TD.

"Either way, you're dealing with it."

This ties for the dumbest post ever made on the internet.

Next you'll tell me that I need also to know how many innings a pitcher has pitched so I know when he is illegally taking the bump.

It is in NO WAY something any umpire needs to know.

T

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Next you'll tell me that I need also to know how many innings a pitcher has pitched so I know when he is illegally taking the bump.

It is in NO WAY something any umpire needs to know.

You don't track subs?

So you don't know how long the pitcher's been there?

And you don't know the limits which ARE a real rule?

You picked the wrong example.

And besides, the pitching limits in LL are pitches, not innings - and it's by day - and in majors and minors you can't pitch in two games in a day -and in Juniors and Seniors you cannot pitch in two games in a day if you pitched 31 or more in the first game - and if someone protests you'd darn well better know the rules.

Or is allowing an illegal act OK?

LL 4.19
NOTE 2: All Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offender should be notified immediately. Example: should a manager, official scorer, league official or umpire discover that a pitcher is ineligible at the beginning of a game, or will become ineligible during the game or at the start of the next inning of play; the fact should be brought to the attention of the manager ofthe team involved. Such action should not be delayed until the infraction has occurred.

LL 9.01
(a) The league president shall appoint one or more umpires to officiate at each league game. The umpire shall be responsible for the conduct of the game in accordance with these official rules . . .
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League Baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules.

OBR 9.01
(a) The league president shall appoint one or more umpires to officiate at each league championship game. The umpires shall be responsible for the conduct of the game in accordance with these official rules .. .
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules.

NCAA 3-6
b. Each umpire is an approved official of the institution, league or conference
and is authorized and required to enforce each section of these rules.

FED talks in several places about administering the rules, not some of the rules.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You don't track subs?

So you don't know how long the pitcher's been there?

And you don't know the limits which ARE a real rule?

You picked the wrong example.

And besides, the pitching limits in LL are pitches, not innings - and it's by day - and in majors and minors you can't pitch in two games in a day -and in Juniors and Seniors you cannot pitch in two games in a day if you pitched 31 or more in the first game - and if someone protests you'd darn well better know the rules.

Or is allowing an illegal act OK?

LL 4.19
NOTE 2: All Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offender should be notified immediately. Example: should a manager, official scorer, league official or umpire discover that a pitcher is ineligible at the beginning of a game, or will become ineligible during the game or at the start of the next inning of play; the fact should be brought to the attention of the manager ofthe team involved. Such action should not be delayed until the infraction has occurred.

LL 9.01
(a) The league president shall appoint one or more umpires to officiate at each league game. The umpire shall be responsible for the conduct of the game in accordance with these official rules . . .
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League Baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules.

OBR 9.01
(a) The league president shall appoint one or more umpires to officiate at each league championship game. The umpires shall be responsible for the conduct of the game in accordance with these official rules .. .
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules.

NCAA 3-6
b. Each umpire is an approved official of the institution, league or conference
and is authorized and required to enforce each section of these rules.

FED talks in several places about administering the rules, not some of the rules.

The state of Wisconsin has pitching limits for HS baseball. It's made clear to the coaches that umpires are neither expected to know the rules nor try to enforce them at the field. Therefore, I make no effort to know these rules.

I'm guessing it's the same in many states. I have no idea how many innings the pitcher threw earlier in the week and I don't care.

LL is different. I know who is ineligible to pitch before the game starts since the tourney I'm working is ringfenced.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The state of Wisconsin has pitching limits for HS baseball. It's made clear to the coaches that umpires are neither expected to know the rules nor try to enforce them at the field. Therefore, I make no effort to know these rules.

I'm guessing it's the same in many states. I have no idea how many innings the pitcher threw earlier in the week and I don't care.

That's nice but the subject organization is LL (Thread title is: LL All Stars & Travel Team Question)

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The state of Wisconsin has pitching limits for HS baseball. It's made clear to the coaches that umpires are neither expected to know the rules nor try to enforce them at the field. Therefore, I make no effort to know these rules.

I'm guessing it's the same in many states. I have no idea how many innings the pitcher threw earlier in the week and I don't care.

LL is different. I know who is ineligible to pitch before the game starts since the tourney I'm working is ringfenced.

This comes from the basketball side but it's similar...many states have limits to how many quarters a player can play at the varsity level (mainly for players who play on both the JV and varsity level). In no way are we expected to enforce this limit...even if for some reason we know a player was about to go over the limit (say if the officials were working a JV/V doubleheader). If the opposing coach brings this to our attention, we are to treat the substitution/participation as legal as they have broken no actual substitution rules.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

This is a question asked & answered on active.com's forum but I'd like to thrwo this out here too.

Can a LL All Star participate in a travel team at the same time as being on the LL All Star team?

The answer on active.com was before 2008- no, but now (2009 forward)- yes.

Agreed?

This is an umpires site however, I did fine a rule that pertains to this.

LL Rule 13.21 Specifically states that travel players are only allowed to participate on their affiliated local LL All Star team if the cost of Nachos and a soda are the same at both fields where they participate. Equitable monetary reimbursement is not an acceptable bartering method for price differentials, and is also not an acceptable method to obtain favorable slection to become a All Star participant. However, should the parents of the interested participant or the participant theirself have the ability to produce mass amounts of currency to the umpires that officiate their games, then by all means possible the participant should be allowed to play on any or all the teams they feel like. Also broadcasting of any of these games without the consent of the NFL, NBA, NHL and T-Ball should only be allowed if the umpires are very, very, very well compensated. This compensation, is above and beyond the initiation fee specifically mentioned above.