Detroit vs Toronto

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Ed is a good friend and old partner so I can't really rank on him too much. It's obvious that he "fell asleep" and took the $hitty end of the stick to boot.

Good learning opportunity here for rookies. You made a bad call and you know you did. You go for help and your partner tells you what he as (the opposite of what you called). You then change the call "to get it right" and you endure the wrath of the coach affected by the call. You let him vent for a while as it was your screw up that caused the whole problem. But when the coach animates what you do, he has to go. If Leyland didn't do that, he could have jawed at Ed for another hour and Ed would have kept agreeing with him.

See how it goes - they cry when we stick with our calls and they cry when we have "board meetings". If I have to eat $hit, I'd rather stick with my call and get chewed on. It's a personal preference so don't try to change my mind - after almost 40 years, it ain't gonna happen!

This play, IMO, is an exception to the rule of getting your own on this play.

It's clear from Ed's delay that, for whatever reason, he had nothing and simply guessed at it. And then realized immediately he f*#$ed the call.

I've gone for help from the plate umpire on a play at first exactly twice in 24 years. Both of those were exceptions to the rule, too -- one was as a result of an F4 running right in front of me as the play happened at first base.

It could be another 12 years before I seek help again, it could be next week, or it might be never. No absolutes from me, but when people ask me in clinics about getting help, I (first) tell them to get the right angle in the first place and stop worrying about using another umpire to make your calls. Then I tell them how to go about doing it and mention that if they're doing it more than once every couple of years, they aren't working hard enough to get into position.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This play, IMO, is an exception to the rule of getting your own on this play.

It's clear from Ed's delay that, for whatever reason, he had nothing and simply guessed at it. And then realized immediately he f*#$ed the call.

I've gone for help from the plate umpire on a play at first exactly twice in 24 years. Both of those were exceptions to the rule, too -- one was as a result of an F4 running right in front of me as the play happened at first base.

It could be another 12 years before I seek help again, it could be next week, or it might be never. No absolutes from me, but when people ask me in clinics about getting help, I (first) tell them to get the right angle in the first place and stop worrying about using another umpire to make your calls. Then I tell them how to go about doing it and mention that if they're doing it more than once every couple of years, they aren't working hard enough to get into position.

And if you were to follow what Rut is advocating, you wouldn't have been around for the secomd time.

There are more than enough officials around that believe the pedestal they sit on is much higher than it really is. It is good to see once in while that they wipe their butts just like us Rut.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jicecone

And if you were to follow what Rut is advocating, you wouldn't have been around for the secomd time.

There are more than enough officials around that believe the pedestal they sit on is much higher than it really is. It is good to see once in while that they wipe their butts just like us Rut.

Do not try to mis-characterize what I said on this issue. It is clear that this was a bad miss. If you cannot get that play right often enough you should not be at that level. And always falling back on getting help in my opinion is hurting umpiring at that level. If an NBA official cannot get the job done and constantly missing plays, they get rid of you. In the NFL if you cannot get plays right enough or even get out of shape, they get rid of you. In MLB, you can be out of shape, have the right last name and they will not get rid of you. And in that process they hold back other guys that could do the job better and the mantra is to hold onto this "Get it right" philosophy no matter how bad it makes them look. This was just one play that they made the right call, but there have been many others that have been wrong or very questionable over the last few years (like a first base umpire overruling a play a 3rd base on a tag/no tag play at 3rd last year). At least Jim Joyce's miss was forgivable as it was very close, but this play was not that close.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do not try to mis-characterize what I said on this issue. It is clear that this was a bad miss. If you cannot get that play right often enough you should not be at that level.

How often do you think Ed Rapuano misses that call? Or any other particular umpire? Give me an example of an MLB umpire who misses plays at first base on a regular basis. Just because collectively there are many examples of bad calls (of which there is no dispute), I would be very surprised if they were attributable to only a few umpires.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How often do you think Ed Rapuano misses that call? Or any other particular umpire? Give me an example of an MLB umpire who misses plays at first base on a regular basis. Just because collectively there are many examples of bad calls (of which there is no dispute), I would be very surprised if they were attributable to only a few umpires.

They aren't, and what they have in common (at least as a generality) is a soft throw on which the umpire can't use sound to make the decision.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

They aren't, and what they have in common (at least as a generality) is a soft throw on which the umpire can't use sound to make the decision.

Bob, that seems to be exactly what happened here. I know Leyland got kudos for sticking up for his team, but there comes a time when you have to show some respect for the game as well.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

...but there comes a time when you have to show some respect for the game as well.

An umpire can also show some respect for the game by not approaching a play in the lazy, nonchalant manner in which Ed Rapuano did on this play.