protest play???

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by barkmo

It was the 3rd out until the call was changed to safe. I think you put the runner on 3rd and negate what happened after the "3rd" out was made.

If handled as I recommended, this step would be unnecessary.

[wentdl]

OK guys I believe we have an agreement that runner should return to 3rd base. I was not at game I am handling this to get some infeed for interp at an upcoming meeting concerning this play. My feelings are, once the offensive coach started carping about getting help when does play become dead. Base ump cannot serve two masters i.e. base runner advancing and getting help from partner for call at first.

My feeling is, once he called runner out at 1st all play ends. It is like any normal 3rd out call what happens defense rolls ball to the mound and trots off. Now you have a reversal and time certainly had to be dead to do this. So unless this guy was a superhuman speedster you know darn well he has 3rd and thats as far as it goes. He had to be coming home as umps were discussing or overturning play at 1st. By the way the defense was protesting runner allowed to score not the reversal of 1st base. And they agreed to the settlement that runner will go back to third and game will resume from point of protest which was the first inning. I thank all who jumped on this to help me out it was greatly appreciated.

[TussAgee11]

Wait a second. We are saying that he CAN return him to 3rd. He CAN also score him if he sees fit. This is a play where the umpires can do whatever they want to fix the problem, use "the hand of God".

It is entirely within their judgment and if they scored the run and a protest came, it is their judgment that is being protested.

Think about the can of worms you are opening if you allow this protest to result in an overturn. Where does it end?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Wait a second. We are saying that he CAN return him to 3rd. He CAN also score him if he sees fit. This is a play where the umpires can do whatever they want to fix the problem, use "the hand of God".

It is entirely within their judgment and if they scored the run and a protest came, it is their judgment that is being protested.

Think about the can of worms you are opening if you allow this protest to result in an overturn. Where does it end?

It's not impossible for the protest to result in an overturn. However, as you infer, it's critical that the committee dissect the difference between the umpire's RULE usage, and his/their judgement.

If, upon talking to the umpire, they learn that the umpires did discuss whether the run would have scored or not had the call at first been made at the normal time - we have no protest.

If, instead, the umpires were unaware that this was even an option and ALSO they state that they feel the runner would not have scored had the call been made at the normal time - this is protestable and overturnable.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by wentdl

My feeling is, once he called runner out at 1st all play ends. It is like any normal 3rd out call what happens defense rolls ball to the mound and trots off. Now you have a reversal and time certainly had to be dead to do this. So unless this guy was a superhuman speedster you know darn well he has 3rd and thats as far as it goes.

OBR 9.02(c)

If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had
been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing
runners where they think those runners would have been after the play,
had the ultimate call been made as the initial call.

Since the umpires awarded the run the run stands because on a call reversal, it is umpire discretion as to where to place runners.

In FED, there is a specific rule to govern this and in all likelyhood R3 would be returned to 3rd base.

SIDE NOTE: You can do what you will but in PRE-GAME make it clear that if your partner needs help do it right away. If there is some time like this case then DO NOT reverse the call or even bother asking at this point.

Pete Booth