Would you take the field with this guy?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by yawetag

You have a misguided idea of a contractor/employer relationship.

I think Illinois is closer to an independent contractor relationship than other states, based on the assignments I've received there (until they eliminated reciprocity for WI officials and I decided that I'd rather not work there than maintain a full license in both states).

Some states, where they require you join one and only one association that does the hiring and assigning and there's no real ability to go out and work for anyone else? Sure, the state probably passes the buck, but in a lot of those instances, I'm not sure the associations would pass the employer test.

[MikeStrybel]

Jeff - My name is Michael, Mike for short. This is silly. I will not comment further about this. I provided the uniform code from our handbook and Craig's Case Situation note on our site from April. You seem to need more clarification than what others require. Wear whatever you want. I'm done trying to relay the facts to you.

Rich - I see no reason to work towards changing uniform policy. While I like the black shirt and jacket, the blue ones are just fine. If the IHSA wants to adopt the light blue / black combo (warm / cold weather) to make guys feel more like professional umpires, great. I enjoy umpiring and the the camraderie that we share. The uniform means little to me. It helps us role play and look presentable but in the end, it is just a costume. I will wear whatever policy dicates and take pride in it.

[umpjong]

Just received an email from the head clinician yesterday and he confirmed that any color can be worn in regular season as long as the two shirts match and have the patch on them. Here is a copy of clinicians memo from this spring.

Uniforms

1. Shirts
a. Patches
i. The IHSA Officials patch sewn to left sleeve (approx 2” from shoulder seam) required for all IHSA sanctioned contests
ii. Embroidered IHSA Officials embroidered is an approved option.
iii. Embroidered IHSA logo over pocket is optional
iv. Embroidered patches available from Honigs and Gerry Davis Sports, as well as any local vender who purchases the IHSA license
v. Patches no longer automatically supplied by IHSA upon re-registration but may be purchased from the IHSA for $1.00
vi. US Flag sewn onto right sleeve is optional (should be a reverse field flag for displaying proper flag etiquette).
b. Navy blue pullover with red 7 white stripes is the only official shirt authorized by the IHSA.
i. Shirts of any color may be worn during the regular season only, but only if all umpires are wearing the same colored shirt during any given contest.
ii. IHSA Officials patch or embroidered Officials patch must be worn on left sleeve regardless of shirt color.
c. Only the Navy blue pullover is allowed during post season play from the Regionals thru the State Finals.
2. Pants
a. Either Heather or Charcoal gray pants are allowed. But officials should where the same shade of gray during any given contest.
b. Charcoal gray will become the official color for the playoffs starting in 2011.
c. Charcoal gray will be mandatory in the Super Sectionals and State Finals.

3. Caps
a. Navy blue only
b. With the new IHSA Swoosh logo is recommended
c. Should be a fitted cap (ie., not the adjustable type)

If you were told something different then as Jeff said, he will also ask the question and let them know there is confusion on the issue. I let the head clinician know that there was some confusion also and thus his reply to me.
Really not a big deal, unless the jerk that would consider down grading a fellow official for this gets the platform to do so.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by umpjong

If you were told something different then as Jeff said, he will also ask the question and let them know there is confusion on the issue. I let the head clinician know that there was some confusion also and thus his reply to me.

This is exactly the reason I would ask the question to make them aware that there literature is confusing and might need to be cleared up.

Originally Posted by umpjong

Really not a big deal, unless the jerk that would consider down grading a fellow official for this gets the platform to do so.

I agree, I cannot believe someone would be so shallow in the first place over and issue like this.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Jeff - My name is Michael, Mike for short. This is silly. I will not comment further about this. I provided the uniform code from our handbook and Craig's Case Situation note on our site from April. You seem to need more clarification than what others require. Wear whatever you want. I'm done trying to relay the facts to you.

Aren't we a little too sensitive about this issue?

Again I am going to ask as I will ask for clarification and make sure that he is aware that misinformation has been stated by either him or others working for the IHSA. That is all. He is a good guy and I have known him before he was with the IHSA. I also need to talk to him about a completely different issue related to other things I am doing so this would probably be a 2 second conversation at most. I will not even report the findings here as you seem to be so concerned about someone finding out the truth. Look I have been a clinician too for years and I always ask people to go over my head to verify what I tell them. It is not a big deal as I want people to believe the things I am saying and I think they need to know for themselves what is right to do.

Peace

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Really not a big deal, unless the jerk that would consider down grading a fellow official for this gets the platform to do so.

Just to clarify this statement, and assuming Jeff is also referring to the subjects who would stoop to downgrading another official for wearing a different shirt (that matched his partner).

Also clearly a mis understanding has occurred on this issue (shirts) and it will certainly be cleared up for 2012. Again, not a big deal except for those who attempt to benefit from it.

Now that we have all clearly veered away from the actual thread, add me to the ones who would address the sloppiness of another either prior to the game if possible and assuredly after the game if not.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am one too in another sport and he was asked this question at an association meeting. I like to get these things clarified as people often think I have some connection with those I work with. I believe this question was asked of him also in April at an association meeting. I might go to the State Tournament this weekend and I will just ask him or Brad when I see them. Because no one I am aware of changed the policy including him. Now you got me curious why different people have different information. And I believe this issue was covered in the Rules video as well.

Peace

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I'm not going to do this with you. I copied what Craig posted on the IHSA website in April. If you choose to believe that those words aren't a change in the policy of 'wear whatever you want, just as long as you match your partner', so be it. Craig wrote those words, he should be 'someone you are aware of'.

The day before speaking with Craig about uniform mandates, I called and talked to Brad. Both stated the official uniform policy from our handbook is in effect. The reasons why some people have different information is because they choose not to read what is on the site, are stubborn or could care less. None of those change the facts that I provided in this thread. I wish you well.

Attended Brad's clinic in March, he stated that during the regular season you could wear whatever as long as you matched.

In the post season, navy only.

Edit: Just saw umpjong's posted. Basically what I said.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Attended Brad's clinic in March, he stated that during the regular season you could wear whatever as long as you matched.

In the post season, navy only.

Edit: Just saw umpjong's posted. Basically what I said.

The elephant in the room is that navy looks just fugly with charcoal pants.

Talk about a thread that's drifted way OT.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The elephant in the room is that navy looks just fugly with charcoal pants.

Talk about a thread that's drifted way OT.

I agree they do not look as good as the other shirts for sure. It is what it is. I wish they would give us an option.

Peace

[Publius]

Originally Posted by yawetag

You have a misguided idea of a contractor/employer relationship.

The IRS disagrees with you.

There is no single dispositive criterion that delineates the difference between an employee and an IC, but the requirement to wear a specific uniform falls squarely on the employee side of the line.

If you don't believe me, ask Federal Express.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Publius

The IRS disagrees with you.

There is no single dispositive criterion that delineates the difference between an employee and an IC, but the requirement to wear a specific uniform falls squarely on the employee side of the line.

If you don't believe me, ask Federal Express.

A specific uniform? I can buy a navy shirt from at least a dozen vendors. It's not that speciifc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Publius

The IRS disagrees with you.

There is no single dispositive criterion that delineates the difference between an employee and an IC, but the requirement to wear a specific uniform falls squarely on the employee side of the line.

If you don't believe me, ask Federal Express.

I do not know what the IRS has to do with this conversation. If you are a contractor in any profession the people that hire you can require you to do some things if they want to continue to hire you. If you are an insurance salesperson and you are a broker for a company, they can require you do follow their procedures or they can hire someone else. So not sure what you are trying to suggest in this situation by saying you can wear what you want. Of course you "can" wear or do anything you want, but that does not mean the people that decide to use you cannot change their mind and hire someone else. And the IRS has nothing to do with that. The IRS only cares how you file the money and what you try to claim on your taxes. But any independent contractor has to follow some rules, procedures or standards.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Publius

The IRS disagrees with you.

There is no single dispositive criterion that delineates the difference between an employee and an IC, but the requirement to wear a specific uniform falls squarely on the employee side of the line.

If you don't believe me, ask Federal Express.

Your picture is simplistic, at least for Ohio.

Here, the state offers licenses to officials willing to conform to their policies. If you don't want to conform, you don't get a license. This is neither an independent contractor relationship, nor an employment relationship, but a licensing relationship.

The schools who belong to the state association hire only state licensed officials. Those officials have an independent contractor relationship with the schools, who, as you point out, cannot tell them what to wear.

There are 3 parties, not 2, and two distinct types of relationship. The licensing relationship is the basis of uniform requirements, not the independent contractor relationship.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by umpire99

Would you take the field with a partner who is working the plate? His pants are obviously not plate pants. They are so tight around the legs that they barely fit over his shin guards. Because of this, his pants are about six inches too short. I was not working this game, but I was embarrassed to be watching it.

Maybe he forgot his plate pants. I never have but I would make do with what I had with me. I showed up to work 3 games once and my partner had the blue softball shirt, dark blue dockers, no hat, no ball bag. I found out it was only his 4th or 5th game and we were working a good 16 year old tournament. Hey it wasn't his fault he was assigned the game it was the assignors fault. I did 2 plates and we talked between innings and did some on the job training and got through it.

[UmpJM]

gordon,

I find your approach both professional and pragmatic.

JM