Appeal Play Ruling--NCAA Rules.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

While perusing (I hope I spelled that correctly) May issues of Referee Magazine, the first question in the Test Yourself portion of the Baseball Section is as follows (I will try to make it concise):

Bases load, one out. Ground ball to F4 deep in the hole. Only play for F4 is to get the B/R5 at 1B. The runners on 3B (R3) and 2B (R2) score. But the runner on 2B misses 3B, and the defense successfully appeals the runner on 2B missing 3B. Does R3's run score? ANSWER: According to Referee, NFHS Rules and OBR says yes, and the logic for this ruling is a no brainer. BUT, Referee states that NCAA Rules say that R3's run does not score (R8-S5, Exception).

I do not own an NCAA Rules Book, so would a college umpire please explain the NCAA ruling to MTD, Jr., and I, or did Referee Magazine screw this play up. Thank.

MTD, Sr.

[UmpJM]

Mark,

1. It's "perusing".

2. A PDF of the current NCAA rule book can be downloaded (free) here: NCAA Publications - 2011-2012 Baseball Rules (2 Year Publication)

3. One place you say R2 misses HP, another you say he missed 3B - I believe you meant 3B both times.

The ruling is NOT different in NCAA from what it would be in OBR & FED, despite Referee mag's assertion to the contrary.

As the question was presented it was impossible to answer because it never said whether the R2 had already passed 3B at the time the BR was retired at 1B. Therefore, we don't know whether the R2 was "forced" at the moment he missed 3B.

JM

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mark,

1. It's "perusing".

2. A PDF of the current NCAA rule book can be downloaded (free) here: NCAA Publications - 2011-2012 Baseball Rules (2 Year Publication)

3. One place you say R2 misses HP, another you say he missed 3B - I believe you meant 3B both times.

The ruling is NOT different in NCAA from what it would be in OBR & FED, despite Referee mag's assertion to the contrary.

As the question was presented it was impossible to answer because it never said whether the R2 had already passed 3B at the time the BR was retired at 1B. Therefore, we don't know whether the R2 was "forced" at the moment he missed 3B.

JM

Coach:

I corrected the typo in my OP. But, I have never heard the argument put forth regarding the location of R2 at the time of BR5 out at 1B. Every play that I have heard discussed where the BR is thrown out at first rather than going after a runner forced to advance has never discussed that question. Thanks for you answer.

MTD, Sr.

[UmpJM]

Mark,

You're welcome.

I believe you may have "mis-corrected" your typo.

JM

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mark,

You're welcome.

I believe you may have "mis-corrected" your typo.

JM

I fixed it again. LOL, that is what happens when I get excited about the Indians winning.

MTD, Sr.

[DG]

Interesting. There was a FED question similar.

With the bases loaded and one out, B5 hits a line drive to the right field fence. R1 and R2 both score, but R3 is thrown out at home. B5 safely arrives at third, but missed first base. The defense properly appeals B5's missing first. [Rule 9-1-1 Exception d]
No runs score. (Correct Answer)

Now put this same scenario onto what you have and let me know what you come up with.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I fixed it again. LOL, that is what happens when I get excited about the Indians winning.

MTD, Sr.

Gotta cut him some slack JM when Mark's Indians are winning.....IJS

Joel

[Dave Reed]

The text of the NCAA rule is different and is ambiguous.
8-5:
j. The individual fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner or the base after the runner has been forced to advance because the batter became a runner;
Exception—No runner can be forced out if a runner who follows in the batting order is put out first. However, if a runner is put out during live action, it does not remove the force on any runners who might subsequently be declared out for a running infraction.
A.R. 1—No run may score on any play when the third out is either a force out or the result of a batter-runner’s failure to reach first base safely.

I've bolded the part that Referee Magazine is probably basing its opinion on.

I believe, but have no way to prove, that the bolded part is intended to apply to situations very similar to the OP.
Bases loaded, B/R is safe at first, attempts briefly to reach second and is tagged out. In this case R2 is still forced to third because B/R was safe at first. So the appeal is of a force out which is the third out.

If my surmise is correct, the the bolded part is really only a clarification, and the same ruling is implicit in the other rule codes. But Referee Magazine probably took the bolded sentence literally and ignored the contradiction to both the preceding sentence and to baseball common sense.

[DG]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

As the question was presented it was impossible to answer because it never said whether the R2 had already passed 3B at the time the BR was retired at 1B. Therefore, we don't know whether the R2 was "forced" at the moment he missed 3B.

Safe to assume though that R2 with a lead off 2b and ball hit deep in the hole to SS he would have passed 3B at the time the throw reached 1b so he was very likely forced.