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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 02, 2011, 07:55pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Yeah, isn't that a bit odd? Did they state any rationale for that?
Nope
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 02, 2011, 07:58pm
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Maybe only live action outs on following runners remove forces on preceding runners who miss bases. If that is so, then my example (and the BRD's) would be correct, and so would the case play UmpTTS43 offered from the meeting. Both plays involve an out on the BR before the appeal on a missed 2B by the preceding R1. After the live action out on the BR, the miss of 2B is a force play; after an appeal out on the BR, the miss of 2B is not a force play.

[Is live action NCAA's term for continuous action? Aren't all appeals in NCAA during "live" action?]

Now why successful appeals on missed bases by following runners would remove forces on preceding runners, but simple putouts would not remove forces is anybody's guess.

This brings up a question:

R3, R1, one out. Batter gets a hit down the RF line. R3 scores, R1 misses 2B and proceeds to 3B. The BR misses 1B and is tagged out trying for 2B (making 2 outs).

If the live action out on the BR does not remove the force at 2B, then a simple appeal of R1's miss nullifies R3's run.

But if the out on the BR does remove the force at 2B, then even after an appeal of R1, R3's run still counts. So the defense would then have to appeal the BR's miss of 1B for the advantageous 4th out.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 02, 2011, 08:13pm
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Originally Posted by greymule View Post
If the live action out on the BR does not remove the force at 2B, then a simple appeal of R1's miss nullifies R3's run.
That's the correct NCAA interp. If there's a live action out, then the preceedig force is not removed. If there's a "dead ball" out, then the previous force is removed. IF there's a break, then multiple appeals must be executed in the correct orfer (and I think that interp is true in all codes).
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 02, 2011, 10:20pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
That's the correct NCAA interp. If there's a live action out, then the preceedig force is not removed. If there's a "dead ball" out, then the previous force is removed. IF there's a break, then multiple appeals must be executed in the correct orfer (and I think that interp is true in all codes).
Now I not only have to carry that DH card (written in that tiny type), I guess I'll have to carry one with THIS stuff on it...and hope (as I hope with the DH card) that I'll never have to pull it out and try to make sense of it.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 03, 2011, 07:25am
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and I think that interp is true in all codes

Don't tell me that even in OBR some outs remove forces and others don't!

If so, the J/R errs in saying, "If a consecutive runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner, and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base, an appeal of that is always a force out."
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 03, 2011, 07:33am
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Originally Posted by greymule View Post
and I think that interp is true in all codes

Don't tell me that even in OBR some outs remove forces and others don't!

If so, the J/R errs in saying, "If a consecutive runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner, and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base, an appeal of that is always a force out."
Sorry -- I was talking only about the "multiple appeal" play -- bases loaded, one out, double. BR misses first, R1 misses second. If the appeal is "BR then R1", the third out is not a force, 2 runs score. If the appeal is "R1 then BR", the third out is by BR at first, no runs score.

Of course, I could be wrong on this.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 03, 2011, 07:34am
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Originally Posted by greymule View Post
Don't tell me that even in OBR some outs remove forces and others don't!

If so, the J/R errs in saying, "If a consecutive runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner, and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base, an appeal of that is always a force out."
In OBR some outs remove forces and others don't.

If the BR is put out at 1B before R2 misses 3B, then that out removes the force on R2.

If the BR is put out at 1B after R2 misses 3B, then that out does not remove the force on R2.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 03, 2011, 10:45am
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If the BR is put out at 1B before R2 misses 3B, then that out removes the force on R2.

If the BR is put out at 1B after R2 misses 3B, then that out does not remove the force on R2.


Yes, clearly in the former case.

I should have specified that I was talking about the latter case only: ". . . some outs [appeals] on the BR after a preceding runner misses the base to which he is forced remove the force on appeal; some such outs ["live" action] do not remove the force on appeal."
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 03, 2011, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule View Post
If the BR is put out at 1B before R2 misses 3B, then that out removes the force on R2.

If the BR is put out at 1B after R2 misses 3B, then that out does not remove the force on R2.


Yes, clearly in the former case.

I should have specified that I was talking about the latter case only: ". . . some outs [appeals] on the BR after a preceding runner misses the base to which he is forced remove the force on appeal; some such outs ["live" action] do not remove the force on appeal."
You didn't have to clarify (even though you were questioned)... your first post said, "and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base," Which covers the case in question.
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