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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 26, 2011, 10:24pm
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Fair or Foul

I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 26, 2011, 10:46pm
DG DG is offline
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There is a small portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory. If the ball should be batted and land and stop in that Bermuda Triangle it should be ruled fair. Will not see this happen very often, don't think I have ever.

If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 01:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
There is a small portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory.
Small but very meaningful.
Quote:
If the ball should be batted and land and stop in that Bermuda Triangle it should be ruled fair.
Obliviously
Quote:
Will not see this happen very often, don't think I have ever.
With experience, Grasshopper , you shall. I have seen this several times.
Quote:
If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.
A fair ball is ruled foul because the advancing runner is touched by it?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 01:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevbrown View Post
I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?
You are correct. It's just that a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box, is considered to be foul, even if it hits a foot in the fair portion of the box. This is by convention.

Your friend has confused things a bit.

Rita
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 06:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevbrown View Post
I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?
Yes, there is a small portion of the batter's box in fair territory. Now, if you are calling the pitch (PU) or watching the offer of a swing (BU), neither of you are going to see the ball hit this tiny area. Now, if the coach comes out saying that the ball may have hit the fair area, you simply say, "Coach, in my opinion, the ball hit in the box, foul.". Remember, yours is the opinion that counts. Also, tell your "learned, experienced" umpire friend that he should spend more time watching the pitch!
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 06:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simply The Best View Post
A fair ball is ruled foul because the advancing runner is touched by it?
A batted ball which hits the batter in the box is foul, even if it hits the batter in/over the "fair" portion of the batter's box.
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevbrown View Post
Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false.
You are correct, sir.
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.
Batter, not runner.
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
Yes, there is a small portion of the batter's box in fair territory. Now, if you are calling the pitch (PU) or watching the offer of a swing (BU), neither of you are going to see the ball hit this tiny area. Now, if the coach comes out saying that the ball may have hit the fair area, you simply say, "Coach, in my opinion, the ball hit in the box, foul.". Remember, yours is the opinion that counts. Also, tell your "learned, experienced" umpire friend that he should spend more time watching the pitch!
You are always dead on... but not this time. I can't even follow what you're saying here. It is readily easy to see where a ball that has landed untouched. If this ball is still moving, then it doesn't matter at all whether the ball first hit in the Bermuda Triangle at all. He's obviously referring to a ball that has stopped there.
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
A batted ball which hits the batter in the box is foul, even if it hits the batter in/over the "fair" portion of the batter's box.
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Batter, not runner.
Both, actually.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.
If that was the joke, I missed it and I apologize.

But, the batter becomes a runner after hitting a (fair?) ball, so the statement was correct.

As long as we all know the rule / interp, I'll ignore the semantics (this time)
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Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 09:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita C View Post
You are correct. It's just that a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box, is considered to be foul, even if it hits a foot in the fair portion of the box. This is by convention.
Your friend has confused things a bit.

Rita
OBR was updated to include this in the rule.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 11:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
OBR was updated to include this in the rule.
Good to hear. There are quite a few of these small "changes" in the OBR but I haven't got a paper copy of the new.

Rita
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 27, 2011, 11:29am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
If that was the joke, I missed it and I apologize.
No worries, Bob, just give yourself a 24 hour timeout.
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