Unsafe catcher

[rbmartin]

I was just watching a team practice last night and noticed a catcher doing something I consider unsafe. While a runner was coming in from 3rd on a hit (no play at the plate) F2 was standing in the baseline extended beyond home plate (basically in the batters box for a left handed batter) gazing out to the field watching the ball. The scoring runner had to either slide, stop on a dime or bump into F2. He was NOT actually blocking the runners access to the plate or doing anything malicious, just silly and unsafe.

I got to wondering if this was a game and I was behind the plate, what would my best course of action be?
If in a game situation, R3 would have bumped into F2 with a great amount of force, what if anything would I call (Babe Ruth/OBR rules)?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I got to wondering if this was a game and I was behind the plate, what would my best course of action be?
If in a game situation, R3 would have bumped into F2 with a great amount of force, what if anything would I call (Babe Ruth/OBR rules)?

"Hey catch, don't stand there."

Address it before you have to answer question 2.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbyron

"Hey catch, don't stand there."

Address it before you have to answer question 2.

Obviously.

What if there was a collision on the first occurance?

[jicecone]

Absolutely agree with mbyron. Preventive officiating.

'What if there was a collision on the first occurance?"

That is what you are there for, to make a decision if the collision violated any rule. I am certain Babe Ruth does not allow malicious contact or WWF type play. Penalize accordingly. Sometimes you just have to officiate.

What particular BR rule do you use? I can't help you but, the next game you officiate for that league , I know you will be on top of it. At least I would.

[dileonardoja]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I got to wondering if this was a game and I was behind the plate, what would my best course of action be?
If in a game situation, R3 would have bumped into F2 with a great amount of force, what if anything would I call (Babe Ruth/OBR rules)?

If there was no play or imminent play why would R3 run into him and not go around? If you are talking a slight bump, let it go and tell the F2 after the action not to stand there. If you are talking steam rolling them you are going to have MC whether there is a play or not (MC supersedes OBS).

But you NEED to be proactive. As mbryan states, get him to move before anything happens.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

What if there was a collision on the first occurrence?

Enforce the rules. Can't be obstruction, might be TWP INT by a retired runner, could definitely be MC depending on how and how hard F2 gets hit. But probably it's nothing, other than "coach, that's not a good place for him to stand."

[cookie]

"...What particular BR rule do you use?..."

Babe Ruth has in place for all divisions the "Contact Rule":

"If a runner attempting to to reach home plate intentionally and maliciously runs into a defensive player in the area of home plate, he will be called out on the play and ejected from the game. The objective of this is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner for the obvious purpose of crashing the defensive player, rather than trying to reach home plate. Obviously this is an umpire's judgement call. (emphasis mine)."

In the OP, obviously HTBT, a decision has to be made by PU whether it was accidental or deliberate. Also, even it there were no play going on at the plate as in the OP, the runner should be ejcted if he were trying to "crash the catcher." However, I'm a little stuck on whether to score the run or not since there was no actual play at the plate (which appears to be required by the contact rule: "on the play"). I'd probably not record the out and score the run.

Babe Ruth is obviously trying to keep kids from emulating MLB collisions at the plate...

[ozzy6900]

Totally disagree here. We are not coaches, we apply rules. If F2 is where he should not be, call the offense as it occurs. If you tell F2 "Don't stand there" and he moves to a worse position and gets nailed, you are responsible. Keep your mouth shut and take care of business when it happens,. You can't be held responsible for stupidity.

[kylejt]

Unless these are little kids we're talking about, I'm with Ozzy on this one. Let it run it's natural course, and rule on what happens.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Totally disagree here. We are not coaches, we apply rules. If F2 is where he should not be, call the offense as it occurs. If you tell F2 "Don't stand there" and he moves to a worse position and gets nailed, you are responsible. Keep your mouth shut and take care of business when it happens,. You can't be held responsible for stupidity.

With due respect, Oz, FED wants us to use preventive officiating to help reduce the risk of injury. No rule requires you to move the bat out of a scoring runner's path: do you consider that to be coaching as well?

I'm not responsible for any player's bad decision: if out of concern for safety I tell him to move and he moves somewhere worse, I have done nothing wrong. If you told me to quit smoking cigarettes and I started smoking crack instead, would you really feel bad or responsible?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbyron

With due respect, Oz, FED wants us to use preventive officiating to help reduce the risk of injury. No rule requires you to move the bat out of a scoring runner's path: do you consider that to be coaching as well?

I'm not responsible for any player's bad decision: if out of concern for safety I tell him to move and he moves somewhere worse, I have done nothing wrong. If you told me to quit smoking cigarettes and I started smoking crack instead, would you really feel bad or responsible?

Sorry, you are wrong. The FED does not want you telling players where to go, where to stand and what to do. That is coaching and this is not LL.

If you want, I can compile a list of all kinds of things that can be construed as "preventative umpiring" like:

• "Hey, don't throw that ball so hard on the pickoff"
• "Hey, don't slap that tag so hard"
• "Don't throw so hard to the batter, you might hurt him"

The list can go on and on.

Telling F2 where to stand is coaching, not preventative umpiring.

[mbyron]

It doesn't sound as if you know what preventive officiating is.

[DG]

Agree with Oz to a degree. I don't see anything to call. If runner is running full steam and bumps catcher hard that don't sound like anything to call. If he does it maliciously and I got something to call. Post did not sound like it was malicious.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Totally disagree here. We are not coaches, we apply rules. If F2 is where he should not be, call the offense as it occurs. If you tell F2 "Don't stand there" and he moves to a worse position and gets nailed, you are responsible. Keep your mouth shut and take care of business when it happens,. You can't be held responsible for stupidity.

Ozzy, thanks.

Preventive officiating does not involve telling a catcher to move because he MAY be in the way. That is being an Overly Officious Official and an invitation for fallout when your meddling is ignored or causes a more serious scenario.

I recall a discussion a while ago about another OOO. With R3 he told the batter to move far away if the ball gets away from the catcher. The batter didn't move and he ejected him, citing the player's lack of respect for his authority. Telling a catcher or scored runner to remove a bat is another example that some think is fine but others whince at. I have seen what happens when a partner tells a catcher to "Get the bat out of the way." One involved the on deck batter having a bat sail his way and the other had the catcher try to kick the bat with his foot, fall and miss the catch. When his coach learned that the umpire told him to do it, the coach was justifiably upset. The umpire felt justified that he was trying to make the play safer but forgot to simply call the play. One of the first things I tell new umpires is to be Harry Carey out there - see the play and tell everyone what happened. I have heard other instructors preach the same thing - watch and report, but never coach. Call the game.

[dileonardoja]

The problem with this board is that we some umpires that do 10U baseball and other that can't remember there last JV game. Granted at the Varsity level and up there is rarely a need to say anything (and you shouldn't) because these acts of ignorance don't occur very often and the players know better. But pre-shaving age kids are a different story. Many have not learned what to do and many are poorly coached. I do NOT want to coach them but I want to get through the game with as few problem as possible so if I tell a 13 year old catcher to get out of the baseline while the ball is being fumbled out in the field and runner is barreling home, I clearly don't see that as OOO.