A First Time for Everything

[Adam]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

First, to yawetag: Sorry for my abrupt response(s) - I was (and to some degree) still hyped up about this sitch.

Overall, we certainly erred in our leniency, and certainly will handle it much more punitively next time as several of you rightly suggested. After the benefit of video review (not by me, by the state association), multiple players from each team have been suspended. My partner and I have been sufficiently admonished, but not suspended as of this writing. Our local association might still weigh in on this, and I'm OK with whatever they decide.

In retrospect, as these situations often do, it happened very quickly - probably less than 30 seconds from the initial collision to the emptying of the benches to the coaches regaining control of their teams and heading them back to the dugouts. During that time, I had pulled out my lineup card and began writing down numbers, but literally only got three numbers written down before the coaches got into the fray and began separating the players.

The best course of action I could have taken was to suspend the game immediately - as Bob Jenkins mentioned in his early post. We did not do this. Even in the absence of multiple ejections, this would have made for a better handling of the overall situation. Let the administrative types sort it out, because there's always somebody with video these days.

It's these types of situations that ultimately make us better equipped to handle other situations. A lifetime of learning. I'll continue to kick myself for kicking this one, at least in terms of game management.

On a twist of irony, I get these teams again this week - one Friday, one Saturday. Not that the sitch was my fault to begin with. I am interested to see what one of the coaches has to say after his comments in the paper.

Always tough to swallow crow; well done. I know full well how it tastes.

[Toadman15241]

For those that want to see a picture of the play that caused the benches clearing brawl and a story on the aftermath, here it is.

Now, while SC suspends players for one or two games TN takes real action on benches clearing brawl. 2 year postseason ban and a nice fat fine for the schools.

[JRutledge]

This is why you cannot go wrong with following the rules as they are written and intended. Glad this was posted and that some reflection was done to realize that an error was made. This is one rule I doubt the OPer will forget for sure. We have all been there on some level. Maybe not with a fight, but with other issues.

Peace

[ozzy6900]

Interesting, I must say. Many want to go by the letter of the law and eject people who are preventing the situation from boiling over. Think about what happens when benches clear.

Most of the players are simply holding their own players back or holding back the other team. A lot of pushing and holding but for the most part, only a few are actually fighting. Even these pugilists are being restrained by coaches and other players until cooler heads prevail. In the four bench clearing incidents that occurred when I was on the field, only the actual combatants were ejected. No one on any of the crews wanted to invoke the rule to the letter as it would not do anything but cause more problems. Most of these people just prevented further problems, and some of you want to eject them?

Remember, part of being an umpire is the ability to interpret the rules. Any idiot can enforce a rule but it takes an umpire to bring intelligence to a situation.

[scarolinablue]

So, our local paper, which was covering that game that night anyway, usually posts the photo galleries online afterward - they never posted this one...until now, since another 8 players were suspended by the state high school league and it is now apparently OK for them to post the pictures (albeit a bit out of order for a little journalistic sensationalism).

Baseball: Dorman Boiling Springs players suspended. > Spartanburg Herald Journal > Sports photos > Photo 1 of 30

The photos don't really show the bench-clearing incident, so I suppose they still held them back. They do show the home coach arguing that I shouldn't eject the catcher for retaliating, which the catcher did right after the picture showing the runner looking up after the collision to see the call (pic 10). The ra...er coach was arguing that his guy couldn't have retaliated as he and the runner never separated. I told him he was wrong, and now have the photo to prove it. Right about the time of the second photo of our conversation I gave him his warning and he walked off the field, claiming he wanted to protest the game (he likes to protest games, even for non-protestable calls - sort of his MO). Since I have his team again Saturday, should be an interesting conversation.

Supposedly, the state obtained a video shot by a grandparent and that's what has brought about the further suspensions (essentially, they are suspending anybody they see having been on the field near the fracas). I've requested the video, and it is being sent. Should be interesting. I'm really ready for this one to be over.

[pastordoug]

I loved the pic with the coach in background signaling out!!! Just remember that "the letter of the law killeth" even in baseball...

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

Baseball: Dorman Boiling Springs players suspended. > Spartanburg Herald Journal > Sports photos > Photo 1 of 30

The photos don't really show the bench-clearing incident, so I suppose they still held them back. They do show the home coach arguing that I shouldn't eject the catcher for retaliating, which the catcher did right after the picture showing the runner looking up after the collision to see the call (pic 10). The ra...er coach was arguing that his guy couldn't have retaliated as he and the runner never separated. I told him he was wrong, and now have the photo to prove it. Right about the time of the second photo of our conversation I gave him his warning and he walked off the field, claiming he wanted to protest the game (he likes to protest games, even for non-protestable calls - sort of his MO). Since I have his team again Saturday, should be an interesting conversation.

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

I have to agree here. In my mind, you're not officiating either team for at least the remainder of this year. If I can, you'll get equal games elsewhere; if not, you'll be paid from the organization.

No way am I putting my umpire in the line of fire.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

Pigs fly. Hell Frozen Over. Intelligence found in Washington. I agree with STB on something. Film at 11.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Interesting, I must say. Many want to go by the letter of the law and eject people who are preventing the situation from boiling over. Think about what happens when benches clear.

Most of the players are simply holding their own players back or holding back the other team. A lot of pushing and holding but for the most part, only a few are actually fighting. Even these pugilists are being restrained by coaches and other players until cooler heads prevail. In the four bench clearing incidents that occurred when I was on the field, only the actual combatants were ejected. No one on any of the crews wanted to invoke the rule to the letter as it would not do anything but cause more problems. Most of these people just prevented further problems, and some of you want to eject them?

Remember, part of being an umpire is the ability to interpret the rules. Any idiot can enforce a rule but it takes an umpire to bring intelligence to a situation.

That sounds great and all that bravado is wonderful, but that is not the intent of the rules in this situation. This actually has little origins in umpiring, this has origins in an overall philosophy of the NF that creates the rules (and yes there is an overall philosophy on NF rules in many areas). And in every rules set in every sport I am aware of that the NF is responsible for, you leave the bench when a fight goes on you are ejected. No exceptions and no other interpretation needed. This is not the Majors or pro ball. And this mentality that we have to make decisions as umpires to decide is not what the rule intends at this level. I have never had a bench clearing brawl in baseball, but I have had one in football. Not fun and we did not give anyone a pass that we could identify came off the bench. And almost every pro sport has a similar position as the NF does on these matters and funny no one fights coming off the bench other than baseball. Yes there are players that can come off the bench and realistically help stop the fight, but the more people involved the more likely something will escalate. Just ask Kermit Washington about this what good it does to have people flying at you in a brawl.

Peace