A First Time for Everything

[JRutledge]

This is why you cannot go wrong with following the rules as they are written and intended. Glad this was posted and that some reflection was done to realize that an error was made. This is one rule I doubt the OPer will forget for sure. We have all been there on some level. Maybe not with a fight, but with other issues.

Peace

[ozzy6900]

Interesting, I must say. Many want to go by the letter of the law and eject people who are preventing the situation from boiling over. Think about what happens when benches clear.

Most of the players are simply holding their own players back or holding back the other team. A lot of pushing and holding but for the most part, only a few are actually fighting. Even these pugilists are being restrained by coaches and other players until cooler heads prevail. In the four bench clearing incidents that occurred when I was on the field, only the actual combatants were ejected. No one on any of the crews wanted to invoke the rule to the letter as it would not do anything but cause more problems. Most of these people just prevented further problems, and some of you want to eject them?

Remember, part of being an umpire is the ability to interpret the rules. Any idiot can enforce a rule but it takes an umpire to bring intelligence to a situation.

[scarolinablue]

So, our local paper, which was covering that game that night anyway, usually posts the photo galleries online afterward - they never posted this one...until now, since another 8 players were suspended by the state high school league and it is now apparently OK for them to post the pictures (albeit a bit out of order for a little journalistic sensationalism).

Baseball: Dorman Boiling Springs players suspended. > Spartanburg Herald Journal > Sports photos > Photo 1 of 30

The photos don't really show the bench-clearing incident, so I suppose they still held them back. They do show the home coach arguing that I shouldn't eject the catcher for retaliating, which the catcher did right after the picture showing the runner looking up after the collision to see the call (pic 10). The ra...er coach was arguing that his guy couldn't have retaliated as he and the runner never separated. I told him he was wrong, and now have the photo to prove it. Right about the time of the second photo of our conversation I gave him his warning and he walked off the field, claiming he wanted to protest the game (he likes to protest games, even for non-protestable calls - sort of his MO). Since I have his team again Saturday, should be an interesting conversation.

Supposedly, the state obtained a video shot by a grandparent and that's what has brought about the further suspensions (essentially, they are suspending anybody they see having been on the field near the fracas). I've requested the video, and it is being sent. Should be interesting. I'm really ready for this one to be over.

[pastordoug]

I loved the pic with the coach in background signaling out!!! Just remember that "the letter of the law killeth" even in baseball...

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

Baseball: Dorman Boiling Springs players suspended. > Spartanburg Herald Journal > Sports photos > Photo 1 of 30

The photos don't really show the bench-clearing incident, so I suppose they still held them back. They do show the home coach arguing that I shouldn't eject the catcher for retaliating, which the catcher did right after the picture showing the runner looking up after the collision to see the call (pic 10). The ra...er coach was arguing that his guy couldn't have retaliated as he and the runner never separated. I told him he was wrong, and now have the photo to prove it. Right about the time of the second photo of our conversation I gave him his warning and he walked off the field, claiming he wanted to protest the game (he likes to protest games, even for non-protestable calls - sort of his MO). Since I have his team again Saturday, should be an interesting conversation.

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Interesting, I must say. Many want to go by the letter of the law and eject people who are preventing the situation from boiling over. Think about what happens when benches clear.

Most of the players are simply holding their own players back or holding back the other team. A lot of pushing and holding but for the most part, only a few are actually fighting. Even these pugilists are being restrained by coaches and other players until cooler heads prevail. In the four bench clearing incidents that occurred when I was on the field, only the actual combatants were ejected. No one on any of the crews wanted to invoke the rule to the letter as it would not do anything but cause more problems. Most of these people just prevented further problems, and some of you want to eject them?

Remember, part of being an umpire is the ability to interpret the rules. Any idiot can enforce a rule but it takes an umpire to bring intelligence to a situation.

That sounds great and all that bravado is wonderful, but that is not the intent of the rules in this situation. This actually has little origins in umpiring, this has origins in an overall philosophy of the NF that creates the rules (and yes there is an overall philosophy on NF rules in many areas). And in every rules set in every sport I am aware of that the NF is responsible for, you leave the bench when a fight goes on you are ejected. No exceptions and no other interpretation needed. This is not the Majors or pro ball. And this mentality that we have to make decisions as umpires to decide is not what the rule intends at this level. I have never had a bench clearing brawl in baseball, but I have had one in football. Not fun and we did not give anyone a pass that we could identify came off the bench. And almost every pro sport has a similar position as the NF does on these matters and funny no one fights coming off the bench other than baseball. Yes there are players that can come off the bench and realistically help stop the fight, but the more people involved the more likely something will escalate. Just ask Kermit Washington about this what good it does to have people flying at you in a brawl.

Peace

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

I have to agree here. In my mind, you're not officiating either team for at least the remainder of this year. If I can, you'll get equal games elsewhere; if not, you'll be paid from the organization.

No way am I putting my umpire in the line of fire.

[scarolinablue]

I don't really have a problem facing either team. I think they're big boys and understand it's not my fault. One coach is a standup guy and called me a couple of nights ago to discuss it, and that went very well and he was very contrite and admitted his team was primarily at fault. The other coach I don't expect a call from, but I don't feel the need to run away from either team. I thought about getting my assignments changed (they are done about 3 weeks in advance or more), but decided to stick with it - what did I do wrong?

If anything, I really expect the upcoming games to be about as quiet as possible - heck, one team has 14 players suspended, so essentially, they'll be playing their JV against the opposing varsity.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Surely not. No offense intended to you, this incident isn't your fault, but who the hell is doing your assigning? Karl Klownbrains? If I could not find a suitable game for you elsewhere, I'd pay you and your partner to sit at home.

Pigs fly. Hell Frozen Over. Intelligence found in Washington. I agree with STB on something. Film at 11.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I don't really have a problem facing either team. I think they're big boys and understand it's not my fault. One coach is a standup guy and called me a couple of nights ago to discuss it, and that went very well and he was very contrite and admitted his team was primarily at fault. The other coach I don't expect a call from, but I don't feel the need to run away from either team. I thought about getting my assignments changed (they are done about 3 weeks in advance or more), but decided to stick with it - what did I do wrong?

If anything, I really expect the upcoming games to be about as quiet as possible - heck, one team has 14 players suspended, so essentially, they'll be playing their JV against the opposing varsity.

I know that from your POV, giving up the games would feel wrong - make you feel like you ran from possible confrontation. However, I think you should err on the side of prudence here. Considering this backdrop behind the game, even the most minute perceived slight against this team is going to be taken in the worst possible light.

It's similar to working games with our children in them. WE know we could do it fairly... but the perception is that we won't - and the first time a call goes against the other team, the "he's favoring his kids" banner will start flying.

Defuse this and work elsewhere.

[scarolinablue]

Well, already been reassigned for tonight - I assume tomorrow as well. Suitable alternative game, and I actually get to do a base game (nine of the last ten have been been plate jobs).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I don't really have a problem facing either team. I think they're big boys and understand it's not my fault. One coach is a standup guy and called me a couple of nights ago to discuss it, and that went very well and he was very contrite and admitted his team was primarily at fault. The other coach I don't expect a call from, but I don't feel the need to run away from either team. I thought about getting my assignments changed (they are done about 3 weeks in advance or more), but decided to stick with it - what did I do wrong?

If anything, I really expect the upcoming games to be about as quiet as possible - heck, one team has 14 players suspended, so essentially, they'll be playing their JV against the opposing varsity.

I do not see the big deal. Either way you did nothing wrong and if you do not work this game, you will have them in the future. Sometimes they need to see the same people so they know what they will get. If you are OK with it, then that is all that matters. It would be one thing if you ejected the coach over some other issue, but the teams had the problem and got ejected not you. I think we do too many things to avoid conflict when the reality is it is going to be there no matter what.

Peace

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I don't really have a problem facing either team. I think they're big boys and understand it's not my fault. One coach is a standup guy and called me a couple of nights ago to discuss it, and that went very well and he was very contrite and admitted his team was primarily at fault. The other coach I don't expect a call from, but I don't feel the need to run away from either team. I thought about getting my assignments changed (they are done about 3 weeks in advance or more), but decided to stick with it - what did I do wrong?

If anything, I really expect the upcoming games to be about as quiet as possible - heck, one team has 14 players suspended, so essentially, they'll be playing their JV against the opposing varsity.

No, no, this isn't about your courage, you have already displayed a bucketload of that. This is about safety, liability, needless exposure...you have become a magnet for emotional uprisings! No one benefits, everyone loses, if you take the field against either of these teams.

Yes, you have been screwed tight by nothing that is in the end-all your fault.

[scarolinablue]

Got switched last night to another game, and called my assignor (who said he was about to call me to see about doing the same) and turned in the game today with the other team. Actually feels about right, in retrospect.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

Got switched last night to another game, and called my assignor (who said he was about to call me to see about doing the same) and turned in the game today with the other team. Actually feels about right, in retrospect.

I have no problem with that, but you cannot run from a coach or team (in baseball especially) all the time. MLB Umpires still have teams they have had situations with and this was not one of them that you caused, you just happen to be on the game. If you are happy with the situation and the way it was handled fine. I have an assignor that will keep you on games even if you had problems with that team or coach from time to time. We should all be professional no matter what. And in baseball games change daily based on rescheduling so it always seems to happen that I will have to work a place I would prefer not to so a game can be covered.

Peace