A First Time for Everything

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I will admit that the OP didn't state, but implied, that the benches cleared.


I agree that the rules allow leeway in a lot of areas. It's even up to you to determine MC for ejection. However, leaving the bench during a fight is not one of them. The rules prescribe all players that leave their fielding position or the bench area are to be ejected. There is no leeway.

Do I think the umpires handled the situation well? Sure. They calmed the game down after the fact. However, their application of the rules was incorrect.

I believe you stated you'd never had a bench-clearing situation. Since I've now had one, I'll speak from my vast experience - I think dumping both entire teams, while correct by rule, would have been a misapplication in this instance. HTBT, for sure. Let me know what you do when it happens to you. I'd seriously like to know if this has ever been applied in this manner. I've never heard of it. I've heard of games suspended due to conflicts, but never entire teams ejected. Never.

I'll agree with what the rule says. I'll agree that, by rule, we misapplied the rule. I also agree that bench-clearing incidents have no place at all in HS baseball. I disagree, however, that dumping two teams in entirety would be correct, so therefore, I disagree with the rule as written.

First, our state has an automatic two-game suspension for any player that is ejected. I can see them upholding these suspensions for the two players involved in this incident (or any others engaged in fighting - believe me, I would have dumped anybody observed throwing a punch, shove, or elbow) - under zero circumstances can I see them upholding the forfeiture of the next two games for these two teams. It just would not happen.

I'd really like to hear from those who've had these situations, and how they handled them. Otherwise, I'm about fed up with those of you who'd say "by rule, the whole team has to go. An example needs to be set." By the book, you're right. In reality, I don't think it would happen - not by any of you. Maybe I'm wrong - prove it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I believe you stated you'd never had a bench-clearing situation. Since I've now had one, I'll speak from my vast experience - I think dumping both entire teams, while correct by rule, would have been a misapplication in this instance. HTBT, for sure. Let me know what you do when it happens to you. I'd seriously like to know if this has ever been applied in this manner. I've never heard of it. I've heard of games suspended due to conflicts, but never entire teams ejected. Never.

I'll agree with what the rule says. I'll agree that, by rule, we misapplied the rule. I also agree that bench-clearing incidents have no place at all in HS baseball. I disagree, however, that dumping two teams in entirety would be correct, so therefore, I disagree with the rule as written.

First, our state has an automatic two-game suspension for any player that is ejected. I can see them upholding these suspensions for the two players involved in this incident (or any others engaged in fighting - believe me, I would have dumped anybody observed throwing a punch, shove, or elbow) - under zero circumstances can I see them upholding the forfeiture of the next two games for these two teams. It just would not happen.

I'd really like to hear from those who've had these situations, and how they handled them. Otherwise, I'm about fed up with those of you who'd say "by rule, the whole team has to go. An example needs to be set." By the book, you're right. In reality, I don't think it would happen - not by any of you. Maybe I'm wrong - prove it.

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned. If we had a bench clearing brawl, I'd look at the benches and those players still in the bench area would still be in the game. If we were under the minimum required to keep the game going, we'd be done.

The NFHS does not want people leaving the bench or their positions to confront one another. Period. In any sport. The penalties are sever so we don't have that happen except in the rarest of occasions.

Locally we had a boys varsity basketball game where all the bench personnel were ejected for this reason. The only players eligible were the ones on the court that didn't get in a scrap. Those officials later in the season worked the state tournament.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I disagree, however, that dumping two teams in entirety would be correct, so therefore, I disagree with the rule as written.

I didn't realize we got to ignore rules we disagree with.

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

First, our state has an automatic two-game suspension for any player that is ejected. I can see them upholding these suspensions for the two players involved in this incident (or any others engaged in fighting - believe me, I would have dumped anybody observed throwing a punch, shove, or elbow) - under zero circumstances can I see them upholding the forfeiture of the next two games for these two teams. It just would not happen.

Mandatory suspensions, whether upheld or not, should have NO bearing in how you handle a situation. If, after ejecting and writing reports, the state wants to allow some kids to keep playing, that's up to the state. Don't do their work while standing on the field.

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

In reality, I don't think it would happen - not by any of you. Maybe I'm wrong - prove it.

It would by me. You're right in that I've never had one. However, my association has said multiple times that you eject every player that leaves their position or the bench. In fact, Rich's statement of keeping track of the players that DON'T get involved is EXACTLY how it's been told multiple times during training classes.

If I ever have one (and hopefully I never will), I will have no problem in dumping everyone involved, ending the game if there's not enough players, and leaving the field. I'll file reports to the state and my association as mandated, and I'll cooperate with both as needed. I couldn't care less who gets suspended from games and who doesn't.

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I'd really like to hear from those who've had these situations, and how they handled them. Otherwise, I'm about fed up with those of you who'd say "by rule, the whole team has to go. An example needs to be set."

"I'm taking my ball and going home!"

[pastordoug]

Again it was a HTBT situation but I think you are jumping to an unfair conclusion when you automatically eject anyone who comes out in that situation. The rule IS clear and again states they must be coming out "for the purpose of fighting or physical confrontation." Are you suggesting that the player who "steps" out of the dugout and takes 2 steps in the direction of whats going on is ejected as well? Because according to some who have posted that "is" the rule. IMO I think it was handled very well. Step back, take numbers and apply penalties.

[Eastshire]

As far as losing games to having the entire team suspended, what I usually see state associations do is stagger the suspensions so the team has enough non-suspended players to play the scheduled game.

So half the team serves suspension during the first and second succeeding games and the other half on the third and fourth.