Illegally batted ball?

[Rich]

Notice nobody, NOBODY arguing for such a call to be made.

With the benefit of replay, I can see that his foot is probably 2 inches out of the box (only his heel has to be touching the line) at the time of contact. You expect an umpire to get that in real time? Especially since you have to see the foot at the time of contact, not a second later (since if the foot's in the air at contact, it's a legal play).

I choose to take my direction in this type play from the ML umpires who, wisely, IMO, don't bother with this kind of nonsense.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Five examples over several decades. In that time, what percentage of these calls do you think were made?

That wasn't the question. 6.06a is still taught at pro school.

As noted, Evans and Wendlestedt both teach their students to see the ball contact the bat and then redirect to the batter's foot. That is a standard mechanic and is requires an umpire to know where the batter's feet are when contact is made.

In response to your question, I can think of numerous calls that aren't made regularly but that doesn't dismiss the fact that they are taught to look for them. Further, I cited a few that were noteworthy but there are others. When told that MLB doesn't call them, I merely provided a few times when they did. Obviously these umpires were taught the mechanic and remember how to do it. Knowing how to apply basic mechanics to help in uncommon situations is in play here. The rule book doesn't define every word and PBUC doesn't display every mechanic.

[Suudy]

What about the case of swinging at an IBB? I can't find a video of Cabrera's hit, but I wonder how far he had to reach. Are illegally batted balls called at all?

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Suudy

What about the case of swinging at an IBB? I can't find a video of Cabrera's hit, but I wonder how far he had to reach. Are illegally batted balls called at all?

Doh! Nevermind.... I missed this post:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Babe Ruth was called out when he stepped across the plate to hit a pitch on an intentional walk.

But this was a long time ago. I don't know how often people actually swing at IBBs. But I presume the PU is looking at feet in these cases, no?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Agree!Get the call right is my mantra. Absolutely!

So ... you're proposing that one of the field umpires, from 100-130 feet away, is supposed to be able to see this batter's heel, the chalk, and the ball being struck all at the same time and his judgment (guess!) should overrule the PU who is 2-3 feet away? Please for the sake of this game, stay the heck off the field. Please.

Go find a field - a 90' base one, not the 60's you're certainly working on, blur out the lines as closely as possible to what you see in the video, go head to any MLB umpire position and tell us if you can see ANY chalk - any at all. You can't.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Suudy

But this was a long time ago. I don't know how often people actually swing at IBBs. But I presume the PU is looking at feet in these cases, no?

Yes, it was a long time ago. I mentioned them because they were huge stars who broke the rules and were caught.

Look, we've got a lot to do out there, track the pitch, watch for catcher's obstruction, batter interference, etc. We do this all while trying to judge a pitch that is moving pretty fast, maybe in a few different ways and without much more than guide on the ground to aid us. Gauging that extra split second to see of a player's foot is completely out of the box is incredibly difficult. That may be one of the leading reasons why we don't see it called more in the pros. And they have chalked lines that don't disappear like most of ours do!

Good luck this season.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Especially since you have to see the foot at the time of contact, not a second later (since if the foot's in the air at contact, it's a legal play).

Not just the potential for the foot being in the air at the moment of contact - with a lunge like this, I GUARANTEE his foot is sliding forward - if you look down AFTER the contact, his foot is not where it was when he made contact.

Nevermind that in this particular play, with the foot significantly behind the plate, it's highly likely the umpire was blocked by the catcher at the moment of contact.

[MikeStrybel]

Agreed, Mike. Can you think of any other rules that we are expected to call but are so difficult to see that they are largely ignored?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Agreed, Mike. Can you think of any other rules that we are expected to call but are so difficult to see that they are largely ignored?

Depending on the MLB umpire, the rule that the pitch must cross the plate to be called a strike is too difficult to see and largely ignored.

[Chris Viverito]

JEAPU does teach umpires to call out of the box. If memory and my notes serve me well, this is something to resist over-officiating.

In other words - call it only when it is so clear the base umpires will see it...or if a player is known for it and...does it as in part one.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Hank Aaron lost a home run for being out of the box.

Babe Ruth was called out when he stepped across the plate to hit a pitch on an intentional walk.

Bernie Williams was called out for bunting while out of the box.

Maury Wills used to have his ground crews make the boxes bigger when facing duece throwers. He was caught and fined.

You so funny.

Ask Carl Everett about his exchange with Ron Kulpa about being out of the box.

Better yet, ask Kupa about the exchange and who, afterwards, got the better end of that deal and what word went out from MLB on how to handle that situation in the future. Seen it called lately? Hilarious.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

That wasn't the question. 6.06a is still taught at pro school.

As noted, Evans and Wendlestedt both teach their students to see the ball contact the bat and then redirect to the batter's foot. That is a standard mechanic and is requires an umpire to know where the batter's feet are when contact is made.

You truly see no difference in tracking a batted ball to the foot and tracking the ball away from a batter, into fair terriotry and still taking time to look for a foot? Neither school teaches that. Neither.

Wow.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
another would be pitch-counts which alter ball-strike zones

Originally Posted by yawetag

Could you be more specific on this? I'm confused.

There is a common line of thinking that the strike zone should shift with the pitch count. The best example of this is widening 3-0 especially if B is sitting the bat on his shoulder; up and out of the zone is the most often expansion I see.

Another is the 0-2 pitch where B has sat his bat watching two perfectly hittable strikes and the call goes F1 way when it is on location of the mitt but outside the zone. I see this most often with good breaking balls or two seamed, moving fastballs.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Look, we've got a lot to do out there, track the pitch, watch for catcher's obstruction, batter interference, etc. We do this all while trying to judge a pitch that is moving pretty fast, maybe in a few different ways and without much more than guide on the ground to aid us. Gauging that extra split second to see of a player's foot is completely out of the box is incredibly difficult. That may be one of the leading reasons why we don't see it called more in the pros. And they have chalked lines that don't disappear like most of ours do!

Each of us have differing capabilities, strengths and weaknesses. I have never had a problem with this call, making or teaching it. One reason may be I'm in a helmet that isn't cleared when the bunt/IBB is made. OMMV but to not check the feet in the case we are discussing was a gross mechanical failure imho.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Notice nobody, NOBODY arguing for such a call to be made.

You mean no one who apparently is not in your killfile.

With the benefit of replay, I can see that his foot is probably 2 inches out of the box (only his heel has to be touching the line) at the time of contact. You expect an umpire to get that in real time?

Absolutely.

I choose to take my direction in this type play from the ML umpires who, wisely, IMO, don't bother with this kind of nonsense.

What other OBR's do you ignore?