Pitcher Warming - HS Varsity Fed Rules

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RichMSN:

NFHS R1-S5-A1: It is mandatory for on-deck batters, batters, runners, retired runners, players/students in the coaches boxes as well as non-adult bat/ball shaggers to wear a batting helmet that meets the NOCSAE Standard.

MTD, Sr.

When that was added. most state interpreters said that it basically covered any non-playing player or non-adult non-player required to be in live ball territory, specifically those protecting a battery warming up.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

When that was added. most state interpreters said that it basically covered any non-playing player or non-adult non-player required to be in live ball territory, specifically those protecting a battery warming up.

Except that it doesn't, since a protector is specifically covered in 3-3-4. I don't consider a protector a ball shagger. To me, there is a difference.

Your state's rules may vary. In my games if there wear a helmet, fine. If not, fine.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Except that it doesn't, since a protector is specifically covered in 3-3-4. I don't consider a protector a ball shagger. To me, there is a difference.

Your state's rules may vary. In my games if there wear a helmet, fine. If not, fine.

RichMSN:

NFHS R3-S3-A4 states: Whenever team members are loosening up in an area which is not protected by a fence or other structure, another member with a glove must be positioned between them and the batter to protect them from a batted or thrown ball within the confines of the playing field. No one is to interfere with a live ball.

It seems to me that a person cannot shag balls without a glove, so if the protector must wear a glove, then it is a pretty good bet that he falls under the description of a ball shagger.

But your attitude begs the question, why are you so adamant that you would not require the protector to wear a batting helmet?

MTD, Sr.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RichMSN:

NFHS R1-S5-A1: It is mandatory for on-deck batters, batters, runners, retired runners, players/students in the coaches boxes as well as non-adult bat/ball shaggers to wear a batting helmet that meets the NOCSAE Standard.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, I mean no disrespect but that does not mention players who are protecting the warm up players. They are not, by definition, on deck, batters, runners, retired players or in the coaching boxes. They are also not ball or bat shaggers. That rule doesn't support this exact scenario, unless you consider him to be a bat/ball shagger, not a protector.

I would probably do what most suggest, "Coach, can you have 24 put a helmet on while standing there?" Student athlete protection is the game in high school ball and I prefer to not be on the field when a preventable injury occurs. Your intent is correct and that rule would probably satisfy a coach or two. Eventually one will call you on it.

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by JFlores

Probably elementary but when the bullpen is in dead ball territory, pitcher is warming up, the protector (player standing behind pitcher or catcher as their back is to playing field) must wear a helmet correct??

The requirement at 3-3-4 for a team member with a glove to protect those loosening up in an area not protected by a fence or other structure applies if the area is “within the confines of the field.”

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

When that was added. most state interpreters said that it basically covered any non-playing player or non-adult non-player required to be in live ball territory, specifically those protecting a battery warming up.

MrUmpire, was Ohio’s state interpreter one of those?

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Except that it doesn't, since a protector is specifically covered in 3-3-4. I don't consider a protector a ball shagger. To me, there is a difference.

Your state's rules may vary. In my games if there wear a helmet, fine. If not, fine.

Until I hear different from Ohio’s state interpreter, I’m with Rich. A ball shagger is one who chases after a loose and dead ball. A protector is a team member who pays attention to the action in live ball territory and defends himself and his teammates, who are loosening up within the confines of the playing field and not likely paying attention to the action in live ball territory. He uses his attention and his glove, not his helmet, to protect himself and his teammates. If he wears a helmet, fine: if not; fine.

By the way, YMMV.

[bob jenkins]

Ball shagger: Runs with his back to the plate, isn't responsible for watching the flight of the ball in play, doesn't have a glove. Must wear a helmet

Protector: Faces the field, his entire job is to watch the ball and catch it if it comes near (he's basically another outfielder), wears a glove. Doesn't need a helmet (unless the state so mandates).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RichMSN:

NFHS R3-S3-A4 states: Whenever team members are loosening up in an area which is not protected by a fence or other structure, another member with a glove must be positioned between them and the batter to protect them from a batted or thrown ball within the confines of the playing field. No one is to interfere with a live ball.

It seems to me that a person cannot shag balls without a glove, so if the protector must wear a glove, then it is a pretty good bet that he falls under the description of a ball shagger.

But your attitude begs the question, why are you so adamant that you would not require the protector to wear a batting helmet?

MTD, Sr.

I'm not adamant that I'd require it. I don't require fielders to wear helmets either.

I'm an umpire, not someone who looks for every opportunity to inject personal views of safety into the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Eventually one will call you on it.

Which is why I don't ask. I assume that the coach knows the situations where protection is required. This is not one of them. Not where I live, anyway.

[Tim C]

All I can tell ya is that the FED rules committee discussed having 'protectors' wear helmets and selected to NOT include them in the rule (remember, while the committee permanent chair is an umpire there are only coaches on the rules committee).

Oregon (by OSAA command) HAS INCLUDED the protectors in the helmet portion of the rule.

While not arguing whether a 'protector' should or should not be required to wear a protective helmet it appears on the surface that more-and-more states are moving towards state decreed protective helmet use.

T

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tim C

All I can tell ya is that the FED rules committee discussed having 'protectors' wear helmets and selected to NOT include them in the rule (remember, while the committee permanent chair is an umpire there are only coaches on the rules committee).

Oregon (by OSAA command) HAS INCLUDED the protectors in the helmet portion of the rule.

While not arguing whether a 'protector' should or should not be required to wear a protective helmet it appears on the surface that more-and-more states are moving towards state decreed protective helmet use.

T

And when WI requires it (if they have done so, they haven't communicated it well), you know I will be happy to enforce the rule.

[JFlores]

Great points guys, I had the young man put it on which coach said it was not required,however, he had the young man put one on anyways. Caught me off guard since the request for the protector to wear a helmet has never been questioned, surprisingly coach knew what he was talking about.

I like to side on the side of caution, however, next time I will just ask for a protector and allow for the coach to decide whether he will wear a helmet or not. One less thing to worry about i suppose.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JFlores

however, next time I will just ask for a protector and allow for the coach to decide whether he will wear a helmet or not.

I think you should ask your state / local association / league, etc. whether a helmet is required there.

[pastordoug]

NFHS R1-S5-A1: It is mandatory for on-deck batters, batters, runners, retired runners, players/students in the coaches boxes as well as non-adult bat/ball shaggers to wear a batting helmet that meets the NOCSAE Standard.

Let's take the OP and apply this rule... is the person protecting the pitcher warming up a: on-deck batter NO, a batter NO, runner NO, retired runner NO, player/student IN THE COACHES BOX, NO, a non-adult BAT/BALL shagger, NO.....

Conclusion: There is NO rule which mandates a helmet being worn by the person protecting the pitcher warming up.

BTW I am certain the rule book specifically states that a helmet is not needed in this particular situation but since I am out of town I do not have access to my books...

[DG]

From 2004 Interpretations:

SITUATION 11: Is a player who is not in the game allowed to warm up an outfielder between innings without wearing a batting helmet? RULING: While the ball is dead, the player is allowed to warm up an outfielder without wearing a batting helmet. By definition, the player is not considered to be a non-adult ball/bat shagger. However, a state association may mandate that any non-adult must wear a helmet while warming up a teammate.

3-3-4 covers this question for states that have not adopted more rules.

[dash_riprock]

3.3.4 (2011 Case Book) says the protector must wear a glove, but not a helmet.