Leaning over the plate

[Rufus]

I coach a 12U travel team and we had a situation during a scrimmage this weekend. The batter's feet were in the batter's box, but his upper body leaned over the plate. I wasn't aware of this during the game but some of my parents let me know about afterward.

I saw in NFHS 7-3-5a says that a batter may not lean over home plate, and I could probably find the same rule in OBR, but my question is this:

I want to instruct my pitcher and/or catcher to make the umpire aware of the situation in a respectful manner that addresses the problem. I realize that umpires will usually deal with this when they see but, if they don't or are not inclined to, what is the best way for my players to address the issue?

Thanks in advance.

[mbyron]

Leaning over the plate before the pitch is not prohibited by 7-3-5, which concerns batter interference with the catcher's throwing or fielding.

In fact, leaning over the plate prior to the pitch is not illegal provided that the batter is legally in the box, so don't tell your pitchers to say anything to the umpire.

Teach them to pitch inside instead.

[JR12]

agreed, it's up to the pitcher to make him move.

[Rufus]

I guess I'm confused then. 7-3-5a says:

A batter shall not interfere with the catcher's fielding or throwing by leaning over home plate.

If the pitcher has to go through the batter to deliver a pitch doesn't that interfere with it (i.e, if the catcher can't field the pitch, isn't that interference)?

Also, this is 12U not MLB. I'm not comfortable instructing a pitcher to make brush back pitches (or purpose pitches). While control is better at 12 it's not that great yet, even at travel ball.

Different/follow-on question - If a batter is struck by a ball while leaning over the plate is that a hit-by-pitch or strike? Seems to me the responsibility for the contact is on the batter in that case, but now I'm not sure.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Different/follow-on question - If a batter is struck by a ball while leaning over the plate is that a hit-by-pitch or strike? Seems to me the responsibility for the contact is on the batter in that case, but now I'm not sure.

If it's in the strike zone, it's a strike, time, and the batter continues to bat (unless it was strike 3). Unfortunately, the only way (within the rules) for you to move the batter back is to have your pitcher throw strikes on the inside corner. And at that age level, the other team's coach is banking that your pitcher can't do that, which is why he's coaching his kids to do this.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I guess I'm confused then. 7-3-5a says:

A batter shall not interfere with the catcher's fielding or throwing by leaning over home plate.

If the pitcher has to go through the batter to deliver a pitch doesn't that interfere with it (i.e, if the catcher can't field the pitch, isn't that interference)?

Also, this is 12U not MLB. I'm not comfortable instructing a pitcher to make brush back pitches (or purpose pitches). While control is better at 12 it's not that great yet, even at travel ball.

Different/follow-on question - If a batter is struck by a ball while leaning over the plate is that a hit-by-pitch or strike? Seems to me the responsibility for the contact is on the batter in that case, but now I'm not sure.

First question: No, the catcher doesn't field the pitch, he just catches it. Fielders field batted balls. By rule there is no batter interference with the pitch, and the only rules governing the batter's position concern his feet and the batter's box.

Of course the batter leaning in hinders your pitcher. That's why he's doing it. That doesn't mean it's illegal, which everyone is telling you.

Second question: It's a strike. Because the pitch hit the batter, the ball is dead, however, so runners may not advance.

The fact that it's a strike is the reason why coaches teach their pitchers to pitch inside. Batters who lean in can't hit that pitch, and it if hits them it's still a strike.

[dash_riprock]

And it's always great fun to ring up a strike on a batter falling away from the plate.

[Durham]

If control is an issue, teach your kid to throw a zero, down the middle or if he can, tell him to split the inner half of the plate. I say this because, a 12 y/o crowding the plate like that isn't trying to hit the ball, he is trying to draw a walk or get hit. Throw a strike and at worst let him hit the ball and play the odds that 7 out of 10 times he will be put out.

When the guys were talking about moving him they meant establish the inner half as a place where strikes will be thrown and called. The hitter will move back. And on a border line pitch with a guy leaning, more umpires are inclined to call it a strike, because then the hitter backs up and we can see the zone better.

[Rufus]

Thank you all for the clarification. I do believe in pitching inside and will try and have the boys work on that. My greatest concern with all this is if the batter is leaning over the plate and gets hit, that he'll be awarded 1st on a hit by pitch. Guess I need to get over that.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I do believe in pitching inside and will try and have the boys work on that. My greatest concern with all this is if the batter is leaning over the plate and gets hit, that he'll be awarded 1st on a hit by pitch. Guess I need to get over that.

A few comments.

1) It is guaranteed that you will get a HBP especially at your age level of competition. Few PUs who officiate that ball have either the skills, ruleset knowledge or cahoonas to make the correct call.

2) The Georgia leagues are notorious for this behavior. It's part of an overall batting system (see below) that has worked well for many national level teams.

3) Pitching inside with B crowding the plate is problematic. Even if you get the ball under the hands, these batters are often taught to take it for the team, to turn quickly without stride. Even when successful, you have the infamous metal bat handle hit.

4) Unless your Ps are highly skilled or can run a fastball up into the hands, you're going to find pitching inside a tough approach to command.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

A few comments.


2) The Georgia leagues are notorious for this behavior. It's part of an overall batting system (see below) that has worked well for many national level teams.

He's baaaaaaaack.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

And it's always great fun to ring up a strike on a batter falling away from the plate.

Ain't that the dang truth!!

Originally Posted by Rufus

Thank you all for the clarification. I do believe in pitching inside and will try and have the boys work on that. My greatest concern with all this is if the batter is leaning over the plate and gets hit, that he'll be awarded 1st on a hit by pitch. Guess I need to get over that.

Well, over the plate doesn't = in the strike zone. The zone does not go from nose to toes over the plate, not in 12yo U-trip anyway. He can get hit in the shoulder, over the plate and still get the base (provided he made an "effort" to move) - and the umpire made the right call.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

A few comments.

1) It is guaranteed that you will get a HBP especially at your age level of competition. Few PUs who officiate that ball have either the skills, ruleset knowledge or cahoonas to make the correct call.

Really? And in your great omniscient existance, how many times have you actually seen a player get hit in the strike zone? Probably can be counted on one hand. So having solid skills and knowledge of the rules actually allows you to make the correct call...you don't need great balls of fire to send a batter to 1st for HBP.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Really? And in your great omniscient existance, how many times have you actually seen a player get hit in the strike zone?

Gosh, the only reason you could possibly ask that is if you haven't had any length of time calling amateur ball . FYI, dozens of times back when I was calling several hundred games a year of 12U-18U baseball.

Probably can be counted on one hand.

So much for that guess.

So having solid skills and knowledge of the rules actually allows you to make the correct call...you don't need great balls of fire to send a batter to 1st for HBP.

Tell that to the hundreds of umpires I have seen miss this call who knew the rules.Gosh, you trolls are aggressive around here.

[ManInBlue]

Gosh, I have plenty of experience calling Travel ball, 100's of games a year - HPB in the zone rarely happens. HPB is a missed spot and significantly inside.

You've seen umpires miss the call? That means you had a perfect view of the strike zone from whatever seat you were in when you saw that happen. Maybe we should recommend changing where the plate ump stands so they can see the zone better.

Troll? You mean in all these years of helping and asking for help no one noticed that? WOW you really are "Simply the Best"

Lets compare - me=more than 5 years and 450 posts. You=this month and less than 15 posts. Yeah, I'm the troll. Whatever makes you sleep better at night, Sugar Dumplin.