What's the call ?

[Ump29]

OBR. 0 out. R2. The batter hits a looping drive to short right field. R2 holds up and remains at 2nd as the ball drops safely. The BR rounds 1st and collides with F3. BR continues to run and reaches 2nd safely. Both runners are now standing at 2nd . The defensive player tags both runners. What should the umpire's call be?

[JJ]

"TIME! R2, you go to 3B, and BR, you stay on 2B."

Next question?

JJ

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by JJ

"TIME! R2, you go to 3B, and BR, you stay on 2B."

Next question?

JJ

I disagree.

[johnnyg08]

I'll try:

I've got OBS (type b), protecting R1 to 2B, however, this is type 2 OBS with 2B still occupied by R2, so I'm also going to call B/R out on the play.

[JJ]

Yep, it's type 2 obstruction, but I'm protecting that BR into 2B, and my award for him will force R2 to advance to 3B. Since the BR was still running after he collided with F3 as opposed to stopping at 1B, while I wouldn't AUTOMATICALLY award him 2B I will in this case. He must have thought he could make it to 2B so he kept running. I'm giving HIM the benefit of the doubt while at the same time letting F3 know to stay out of the runner's path.

Of course, this is definitely a HTBT situation, but based on the OP this is what I would do. If another umpire chooses to do something different, that's his call.

JJ

14 days till first pitch.

[umpjong]

Technically I'm with JJ on this but from a different path.
The play would continue and BR would probably be called out to end play. Then umpire that has the obstruction would step in and award BR 2nd because of the obstruction, and R2 third because he is forced to third because of the award to BR.

[bob jenkins]

fwiw, I agree with JJ and jong

[Forest Ump]

Gentlemen, I've got a different take on this. The obstruction is negated because the BR made it to 2nd base safely. R2's action are completely independent of the obstruction. I don't have obstruction anymore. I now have two runners on a base that is legally occupied by bonehead R2. BR is out when tagged.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

The obstruction is negated because the BR made it to 2nd base safely. ... I now have two runners on a base that is legally occupied by bonehead R2.

Contradict yourself much? If he's in jeopardy of being out when tagged on the base, then he's not safely on 2B.

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Contradict yourself much? If he's in jeopardy of being out when tagged on the base, then he's not safely on 2B.

No contradiction here, Yawetag. Two seperate and independent plays. BR makes it to 2B safely. No play was made on him. The umpire did not rule out or safe on his arrival at the base. He achieved his advance base regardless of whether he was protected there or not. He was never in jepordy. The obstruction is negated because of that. He's now standing on an occupied base and then tagged. Where is the contradiction? Is he not responsible for knowing that 2nd base is occupied before preceeding there?

[umpjong]

Obstruction is never "negated". An umpire will always acknowledge the obstruction even if the runner attains the base entitled to or one beyond. Since the BR clearly showed that he could reach 2nd base without being obstructed, he is at least entitled to that base and any runner forced to advance, because of the penalty of obstruction, will do so.

[Mrumpiresir]

I cannot see awarding R2 3rd because of his boneheaded baserunning. I have the BR out when tagged on second base.

I know it is a different play but the principle is the sane.

When two runners are between first and second and the ball is thrown out of play, we award the lead runner two bases but the trail runner would only get one.

By what rule could you advance R2 to third? What were the base coaches doing? Just bad baserunning.

[Mrumpiresir]

Another thought;

If bases are awarded by the umpire that would negate the obstruction, then go ahead and put the batter runner on second. But that has no effect on R2 so now we have two runners on the same base and the BR is out when tagged.

[tiger49]

You can't award a base to a runner that has not been obstructed with under type B obstruction. Under type A it would be possible, due to the minimum award.

In this case you can't reward the offense for R2 not advancing. R2 ends up screwing over the BR in this case. As he himself nullifies the act of obstruction, by not advancing.

[Durham]

There is no right answer. This is a judgement call. The important thing to know is make your judgement and then know what verbiage you are going to use.