Tampa Bay/NY Jeter HBP?

[celebur]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

come on it is just a HBP.. it's part of the game, it doesn't make him a bad guy, he is trying to get on base any way he can..

Of course it's part of the game. But it does go to show that Jeter's not the paragon of virtue that some people make him out to be (including some people on this forum).

[MD Longhorn]

Wow...

I'm near the front of the line on Jeter-hating... but this has gotten silly. Local radio station has even been talking about Jeter's cheating all morning.

Good grief. This no more tarnishes his "paragon of virtue" than would a fielder, knowing he didn't catch a fly ball, who lifts his glove up as if to say "I Caught it!" or someone knowing they didn't catch the ball before the runner passed the base jogging off like he'd made the out.

This is not cheating, or even unethical.

[jicecone]

I am more than sure his contracts rewards him for getting on base more than not getting on base. I am also sure it doesn't say how, either.

Anyone out there that believes this is a travesty of the game well, grow up. As we always say here, show me the rule violation or reference that says this is not allowed.

Obviously a tough call because, none of them seen it and of course the trained eye in a replay is always better than live action.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I am more than sure his contracts rewards him for getting on base more than not getting on base. I am also sure it doesn't say how, either.

Anyone out there that believes this is a travesty of the game well, grow up. As we always say here, show me the rule violation or reference that says this is not allowed.

Obviously a tough call because, none of them seen it and of course the trained eye in a replay is always better than live action.

I don't think it's a travesty -- I do think that Jeter invoking the trainer is the baseball equivalent of the soccer player going down like he's shot until the referee books the opponent. It cheapens the sport and lowers my respect for Jeter. I mean, Jeter was *immediately* awarded the base - the rest of the histrionics were unnecessary.

For those of you saying you'd call out "Dead ball," please don't. The proper baseball call is "Time."

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

For those of you saying you'd call out "Dead ball," please don't. The proper baseball call is "Time."

Thank you, I was looking for my shovel. LOL

[Publius]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

For those of you saying you'd call out "Dead ball," please don't. The proper baseball call is "Time."

While you are "correct", and I use "time" out of longstanding habit, we'd all be better served to stop encouraging these form-over-substance distinctions. There is absolutely no difference in the outcome of the two pronouncements, and nobody is confused by either.

Heck, custom and practice notwithstanding, a case can be made for "dead ball" being better. Sometimes the ball becomes dead by rule, and sometimes by a call of "time". If it's by rule, as when the pitch hits the batter, "time" is superfluous; no need to call it when play is already dead.

"Time" causes a dead ball; "dead ball" is giving information.

[grunewar]

Jeter's behavior has been one of the lead stories on every ESPN show today to include interviews with many athletes. There are generally two schools of thought:

1) How could he, cheating is wrong!

2) I'd do almost anything, including cheat, to help my team win!

And I gotta tell ya, more athletes are going for #2.

Kornheiser - "Derek Cheater"

[KJUmp]

FWIW...When asked, Jeter admitted in a post game interview with a radio reporter that it hit the bat first (not that we didn't already know that after seeing the video). I heard a replay of that portion of the interview this morning on a local morning radio sports talk show.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Publius

While you are "correct", and I use "time" out of longstanding habit, we'd all be better served to stop encouraging these form-over-substance distinctions. There is absolutely no difference in the outcome of the two pronouncements, and nobody is confused by either.

Heck, custom and practice notwithstanding, a case can be made for "dead ball" being better. Sometimes the ball becomes dead by rule, and sometimes by a call of "time". If it's by rule, as when the pitch hits the batter, "time" is superfluous; no need to call it when play is already dead.

"Time" causes a dead ball; "dead ball" is giving information.

Nonsense. Calling out "dead ball" shows an umpire who isn't trained just as much as an umpire calling out "no, no, no, no" instead of "safe" is showing the same thing.

There is a right way to do things and there are other ways. I wonder what Jim Evans and his instructors would do if you shouted out "dead ball" at school -- oh, I know that. They'd pretend to shoot the baseball.

[jkumpire]

Men,

If you are upset about Jeter, then become a golf official. I have no idea what the man is like in his off the field life, and we will never really know it. The Press warps everything, good or bad with a guy like him. To me he seems like a classy ballplayer who may well be in the HOF one day.

But, he is a ballplayer looking to try and get a win for his team. What's the old saying? "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' hard enough?" He's trying to win a big game, and he tried to get on first any way he can. He won the lottery that time, he won't the next time. Just don't diss his character, until he has a November date with a golf club tree and fire hydrant and shows it for all to see.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Nonsense. Calling out "dead ball" shows an umpire who isn't trained just as much as an umpire calling out "no, no, no, no" instead of "safe" is showing the same thing.

There is a right way to do things and there are other ways. I wonder what Jim Evans and his instructors would do if you shouted out "dead ball" at school -- oh, I know that. They'd pretend to shoot the baseball.

Well, sure, but sometimes the "right way" is just an opinion that becomes adopted by sycophants. This is part of the minutiae evaluators use to determine who gets to be a member of "the club". It's in a group with what foul line you stand on between innings, how long the brim of a plate umpire's hat is, what brand of clothing you wear, what hand you use to take off your mask, and whether you use an indicator. To be in "the club" you have to adhere to the minutiae, but they don't add to the quality of your calls.

The distinction between "dead ball" and "time" is more like "three balls, two strikes" and "full count"; umpires are trained to say the former, but on the field the players understand both equally well, and couldn't care less which is used. "No, no, no" isn't even in the same league--it's ambiguous.

Evans could just as easily deem "dead ball" the preferred call--it's more logical, certainly, than calling time when the play is already dead by rule--and if someone called "Time", pretend to look at his watch. Nobody cares except umpires who want to be in the club.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Andy (my youngest son, a baseball player, and still in H.S.), MTD, Jr., and I have watched the replay numerous times. We all agree on the following points:

1) This is a very very very close play.

2) Yes, the ball did hit the end of the bat.

3) The key is: Did the ball hit the end of bat first and then Jeter's body, or did hit Jeter's body and then the end of the bat?

4) The contact between bat, ball, and body is very very very close.

5) Notice that the PU immediately signaled DB and was awarding Jeter 1B. From the PU's angle it appears that the ball hit Jeter first and then the end of the bat.

6) Jeter really didn't have to milk it because the PU immediately signaled DB and awarded Jeter 1B.

I have not read any quotes from the PU or Crew Chief, but I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that that PU, from his angle, saw the ball hit Jeter in the stomach, then hit the end of his bat, and then hit is stomach again.

MTD, Sr.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Andy (my youngest son, a baseball player, and still in H.S.), MTD, Jr., and I have watched the replay numerous times. We all agree on the following points:

3) The key is: Did the ball hit the end of bat first and then Jeter's body, or did hit Jeter's body and then the end of the bat?

4) The contact between bat, ball, and body is very very very close.

...butI am willing to bet dollars to donuts that that PU, from his angle, saw the ball hit Jeter in the stomach, then hit the end of his bat, and then hit is stomach again.

MTD, Sr.

Stomach? That must be why Jeter was holding and rubbing his wrist and had his trainer examine his wrist. Yes, of course that's it, the ball hit his stomach.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Andy (my youngest son, a baseball player, and still in H.S.), MTD, Jr., and I have watched the replay numerous times. We all agree on the following points:

1) This is a very very very close play.

2) Yes, the ball did hit the end of the bat.

3) The key is: Did the ball hit the end of bat first and then Jeter's body, or did hit Jeter's body and then the end of the bat?

4) The contact between bat, ball, and body is very very very close.

5) Notice that the PU immediately signaled DB and was awarding Jeter 1B. From the PU's angle it appears that the ball hit Jeter first and then the end of the bat.

6) Jeter really didn't have to milk it because the PU immediately signaled DB and awarded Jeter 1B.

I have not read any quotes from the PU or Crew Chief, but I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that that PU, from his angle, saw the ball hit Jeter in the stomach, then hit the end of his bat, and then hit is stomach again.

MTD, Sr.

What the umpire "saw" and what the cameras "saw"are not even close.
The ball never, ever, hit Jeter.
This is not to blame the umpire.
It is to ask what would umpires do with the play after watching the replay?
If instant replay was used and the play was, somehow, under review.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

What the umpire "saw" and what the cameras "saw"are not even close.
The ball never, ever, hit Jeter.

Uh ... yeah it did - what replay are you watching?

It is to ask what would umpires do with the play after watching the replay?
If instant replay was used and the play was, somehow, under review.

Um ... foul ball, get back in the box. Done. Easy. What's the problem?