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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA,
Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 10:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.
Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)
Yep...plate guy stays home. Nice to have 6 if you can stay out of each other's way....

JJ
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)
Over the 9 years I was involved in LL umpiring and doing the whole deal (local league UIC, regional umpire school, annual regional clinic, umpiring a regional) I was told the following about LLBB 6 man:

1) They first went to 6 man so every umpire at the regional got a TV game, nobody got left out. And face it, if you're an ump at any level being on national TV on ESPN is a big deal. Note: Back then they didn't go to 6 man until the semis and the finals.

2) When they went to 6 man for all regional games it was to (a) overall give umpires more games in the tournament (b) a way to "hide" a umpire who maybe wasn't at the "level" he needed to be at as they moved deeper into the tournament, yet still give him assignments. (c) to eliminate problems that occurred far to often with rotations when a base umpire went out.*

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

*There was a situation that occurred in a LLWS game (prior to my regional in 2002) where in a 6 man crew with R1 on 1B, there was a ball hit to CF and the 2BU got him self "caught" between "should I go out or should I cut in?"....he got stuck and kind of turned around in no man's land and had no look at R1 missing 2B by a lot. After that they changed to the 2BU does not go out mechanic. We were told the story by our regional UIC and his staff at our clinic.

3)

Last edited by KJUmp; Mon Aug 23, 2010 at 12:20pm.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 04:09pm
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3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

This explains why on every "trouble" ball hit to CF, U3 always had his head down and was busting inside. I told my wife that I wished the CCA manual had it diagrammed like that, so I could "hide" the #4 that I've never worked with!
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 04:26pm
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Know what ... I have trouble envisioning a "trouble" ball on this field with 6 guys. I mean, first, what's the maximum distance from an umpire? 75 feet or so? Second - who cares if they see it at all - we have replay!
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 05:32pm
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I just returned home from taking my son to the Little League World Series. Being there makes you realize how over crowded a small diamond is with six umpires. Most of the comments I heard about the umpires from the crowd were about how consistently tight the strike zone was in Williamsport, compared to the regionals. I thought the plate umpire in both games we saw was excellent and the first over turned call right in front of us. It was well worth the trip.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 07:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Know what ... I have trouble envisioning a "trouble" ball on this field with 6 guys. I mean, first, what's the maximum distance from an umpire? 75 feet or so? Second - who cares if they see it at all - we have replay!
Now that's a great line.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 04:31pm
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Bob, Sorry I disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.
Bob,

In another thread I think the 20% number is shown to be incorrect. Anyway, my ability to trust ESPN with numbers about umpires is very, very limited, to the point of non-existence.

More to the point, if the best umpires LL can find by its criteria are in PA, overturning 3 calls by replay in 22 games is a big number to me. Would you personally have missed 3 calls in any set of 132 innings you have called this year that would lead to them being overturned on replay?

How many of us on this board would think that 3 overturned calls in about 19 7 inning games or about 15 nine inning games by us is a good job by us as umpires in those games?

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?
Outstanding! ...
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(Out standing in a line looking for a new job at least).
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
Bob,

In another thread I think the 20% number is shown to be incorrect. Anyway, my ability to trust ESPN with numbers about umpires is very, very limited, to the point of non-existence.

More to the point, if the best umpires LL can find by its criteria are in PA, overturning 3 calls by replay in 22 games is a big number to me. Would you personally have missed 3 calls in any set of 132 innings you have called this year that would lead to them being overturned on replay?

How many of us on this board would think that 3 overturned calls in about 19 7 inning games or about 15 nine inning games by us is a good job by us as umpires in those games?

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?
Well, for me, I've never worked 4 man or 6 man, but if I did, yes, I would think that very few should be overturned by a crew that has proper mechanics and is in proper position, while using proper timing.

However, many of us have read the articles that prove that scientifically, the human eye and brain can't process information as well as the cameras on the super-close plays. In those cases, if there was replay in my game and I missed one of those, or if I got it right, I'd chalk it up to a good guess or a miss (coin flip) and not feel bad about it.

I'm not immune from making mistakes and I would venture to say that many of the guys on here who have worked a lot of baseball wouldn't compare their games to any other games because each game has it's own dynamics...some games are easy, some games are tougher based on the unique events of each game.
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Old Tue Aug 24, 2010, 11:17am
Stop staring at me swan.
 
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two outs into the game and the coach goes to 3BU to ask for help on a tag because his runner said that he wasn't tagged.

announcers say..."great job on the crew getting together to make sure the call was right"

simply because the runner says that he wasn't tagged. setting a bad precedent for baseball america (not the umpires fault) they might be instructed to get together on this stuff at the request of the coaches and TD
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Old Tue Aug 24, 2010, 11:18am
Stop staring at me swan.
 
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It just keeps getting better...

In discussion of the LLWS replay...announcers quote:

"I just hope MLB is watching this LLWS"
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