A LLWS Observation

[UmpJM]

Mrumpiresir,

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value.

Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seemed pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV. Probably more "over-hustle" than under.

Most of the "mistakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mrumpiresir,

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value. Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seem pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV.

Most of the "misstakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

Crass maybe. Uninformed and shallow, get a grip. I expect all umpires at every level to work toward excellence as we all should. Study the rules and mechanics and learn how to umpire. I guess I am expecting more from these guys.

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

I regret that you have a problem with my post, but be more specific and I will address those issues.

[rookieblue]

I'm thinking UmpJM does have a very firm grip. The doctor diagnosed precisely.

This is Little League. "The kids deserve it." Just like they deserve the travesty of "personal profiles," and "favorite foods" and - God help us all, instant reply.

Little League needs to regain its bearings. It is a ship adrift, morally.

[jkumpire]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but as I was turning a channel yesterday, I thought I saw a graphic posted that said six calls were appealed to replay, and three were overturned. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA, or the replay system is a farce. What calls went to the replay booth?

[LMan]

I reread my comment and decided yes, I was somewhat harsh. Of course we have all kicked a call or three in our time (except Tee )...and no, Ive never had the eyes of Frosted Flakes World boring holes in me whilst I was on the field.

But it still makes me think that LL is, for whatever reasons, unable/unwilling to disturb the seniority/spoils system that it has had for years in selecting the crews for the Big Show.....but obviously they perceive an issue, or there wouldn't be a replay program in the first place.

Maybe this is all they can think up as a work-around for their selection system...trying to use technology to band-aid poor personnel policy.


But, I'm not that familiar with how the LL Big Dogs are chosen beyond what I read here, so perhaps my perception is incorrect.

On another positive note, the New Jersey/Hawaii game was excellently played, a treat to watch. The NJ play catching the foul ball/cutting down the runner at the plate was superb.

[asdf]

Little League is a joke from top to bottom. (Includes parents, coaches, sponsors, umpires.....anyone involved)

- They have pimped the kids for TV dollars.

- They instituted a bogus 85 pitch count to make it look like they care about the kids................then they let the kids throw curve balls on 57 of the 85.

- Instant replay ? You gotta be kidding me !! I don't know what's worse, the fact that they instituted instant replay or the fact that they needed to !

- Miking coaches and umpires ? See above !!

- Team selection is as political as any process around.


Way to teach 'em young !! Got a whole new group of prima donna's on the way.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by asdf

Little League is a joke from top to bottom. (Includes parents, coaches, sponsors, umpires.....anyone involved)

- They have pimped the kids for TV dollars.

- They instituted a bogus 85 pitch count to make it look like they care about the kids................then they let the kids throw curve balls on 57 of the 85.

- Instant replay ? You gotta be kidding me !! I don't know what's worse, the fact that they instituted instant replay or the fact that they needed to !

- Miking coaches and umpires ? See above !!

- Team selection is as political as any process around.


Way to teach 'em young !! Got a whole new group of prima donna's on the way.

The enitre LL bylaws could be replaced with just 4 rules:

1. Steve Keener knows what's best for baseball.
2. Steve Keener knows what's best for kids.
3. Steve Keener is never wrong.
4. Steve Keener is always right.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA,

Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

Yep...plate guy stays home. Nice to have 6 if you can stay out of each other's way....

JJ

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

Over the 9 years I was involved in LL umpiring and doing the whole deal (local league UIC, regional umpire school, annual regional clinic, umpiring a regional) I was told the following about LLBB 6 man:

1) They first went to 6 man so every umpire at the regional got a TV game, nobody got left out. And face it, if you're an ump at any level being on national TV on ESPN is a big deal. Note: Back then they didn't go to 6 man until the semis and the finals.

2) When they went to 6 man for all regional games it was to (a) overall give umpires more games in the tournament (b) a way to "hide" a umpire who maybe wasn't at the "level" he needed to be at as they moved deeper into the tournament, yet still give him assignments. (c) to eliminate problems that occurred far to often with rotations when a base umpire went out.*

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

*There was a situation that occurred in a LLWS game (prior to my regional in 2002) where in a 6 man crew with R1 on 1B, there was a ball hit to CF and the 2BU got him self "caught" between "should I go out or should I cut in?"....he got stuck and kind of turned around in no man's land and had no look at R1 missing 2B by a lot. After that they changed to the 2BU does not go out mechanic. We were told the story by our regional UIC and his staff at our clinic.

3)

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

Bob,

In another thread I think the 20% number is shown to be incorrect. Anyway, my ability to trust ESPN with numbers about umpires is very, very limited, to the point of non-existence.

More to the point, if the best umpires LL can find by its criteria are in PA, overturning 3 calls by replay in 22 games is a big number to me. Would you personally have missed 3 calls in any set of 132 innings you have called this year that would lead to them being overturned on replay?

How many of us on this board would think that 3 overturned calls in about 19 7 inning games or about 15 nine inning games by us is a good job by us as umpires in those games?

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?

Outstanding! ...
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(Out standing in a line looking for a new job at least).

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Bob,

In another thread I think the 20% number is shown to be incorrect. Anyway, my ability to trust ESPN with numbers about umpires is very, very limited, to the point of non-existence.

More to the point, if the best umpires LL can find by its criteria are in PA, overturning 3 calls by replay in 22 games is a big number to me. Would you personally have missed 3 calls in any set of 132 innings you have called this year that would lead to them being overturned on replay?

How many of us on this board would think that 3 overturned calls in about 19 7 inning games or about 15 nine inning games by us is a good job by us as umpires in those games?

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?

Well, for me, I've never worked 4 man or 6 man, but if I did, yes, I would think that very few should be overturned by a crew that has proper mechanics and is in proper position, while using proper timing.

However, many of us have read the articles that prove that scientifically, the human eye and brain can't process information as well as the cameras on the super-close plays. In those cases, if there was replay in my game and I missed one of those, or if I got it right, I'd chalk it up to a good guess or a miss (coin flip) and not feel bad about it.

I'm not immune from making mistakes and I would venture to say that many of the guys on here who have worked a lot of baseball wouldn't compare their games to any other games because each game has it's own dynamics...some games are easy, some games are tougher based on the unique events of each game.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth