Called out for Missing Third

[GoodwillRef]

Did anyone see the Reds player miss (or touch) third bases going from 1st to home on a double? He was called out on an appeal that he missed third base. Jerry Layne called him out from behind home plate...replays show it was way to close to call especially from behind home plate. If we are not 100% sure and are in great position feel free not to punch the guy out.

[johnnyg08]

Careful...on that type of play PU might have been up the line at 3B...he was simply back behind home plate when they did the appeal.

I highly doubt MLB umpires would've left 3B completely uncovered...I'm pretty sure PU was in great position to see the miss.

[MD Longhorn]

Just another plug for no instant replay. You're right - you don't make this call unless you KNOW it. Therefore, PU KNEW it. Replay didn't show it - obviously PU had a better angle than cameras.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Careful...on that type of play PU might have been up the line at 3B...he was simply back behind home plate when they did the appeal.

I highly doubt MLB umpires would've left 3B completely uncovered...I'm pretty sure PU was in great position to see the miss.

When is the last time you saw Jerry Layne hustle out from behind home plate? He had to stay because of the potential runner scoring.

[GoodwillRef]

The 3rd base umpire went out to rule on a possible fan interference call...Layne was at the plate.

Here is he video:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CIN@ARI: Janish's homer puts Cincy on top in seventh - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

The 3rd base umpire went out to rule on a possible fan interference call...Layne was at the plate.

Here is he video:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CIN@ARI: Janish's homer puts Cincy on top in seventh - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Both reply angles were horrible, one from the foul side of third and the other from first. Neither could show a miss less than a foot.

However, Layne had the view straight up the baseline and saw the miss clearly. He apparently used the same criteria you use and called the out.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

The 3rd base umpire went out to rule on a possible fan interference call...Layne was at the plate.

Here is he video:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CIN@ARI: Janish's homer puts Cincy on top in seventh - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I'm sorry, but from where I was sitting, it's clear to me that he missed the bag. He kicked up dirt with the foot in question, the bag never moved, and if you look at the angle, Lane had the best seat in the house, even though he was at home. I agree - He could have made the call from 120 feet away.
Question though - in 4-man, when U3 went out, wasn't Lane supposed to rotate up to 3rd, and U1 rotate down to home? Maybe, b/c there was no play at 3rd, he just didn't bother?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I'm sorry, but from where I was sitting, it's clear to me that he missed the bag. He kicked up dirt with the foot in question, the bag never moved, and if you look at the angle, Lane had the best seat in the house, even though he was at home. I agree - He could have made the call from 120 feet away.
Question though - in 4-man, when U3 went out, wasn't Lane supposed to rotate up to 3rd, and U1 rotate down to home? Maybe, b/c there was no play at 3rd, he just didn't bother?

I also looks like the side of his foot may have hit the bag.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I'm sorry, but from where I was sitting, it's clear to me that he missed the bag. He kicked up dirt with the foot in question, the bag never moved, and if you look at the angle, Lane had the best seat in the house, even though he was at home. I agree - He could have made the call from 120 feet away.
Question though - in 4-man, when U3 went out, wasn't Lane supposed to rotate up to 3rd, and U1 rotate down to home? Maybe, b/c there was no play at 3rd, he just didn't bother?

I also thought that Layne should have rolled up to third and had the 1st base ump roll home...I maybe wrong.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I'm sorry, but from where I was sitting, it's clear to me that he missed the bag. He kicked up dirt with the foot in question, the bag never moved, and if you look at the angle, Lane had the best seat in the house, even though he was at home. I agree - He could have made the call from 120 feet away.
Question though - in 4-man, when U3 went out, wasn't Lane supposed to rotate up to 3rd, and U1 rotate down to home? Maybe, b/c there was no play at 3rd, he just didn't bother?

If you watch the video again the 1st base umpire is rolling home and stops when he sees Layne still there.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

When is the last time you saw Jerry Layne hustle out from behind home plate? He had to stay because of the potential runner scoring.

Never, I don't know Jerry Layne if he was sitting in my living room.

Why would the MLB umpires rule any different than how we're saying that we would on this play (ie, "150% sure that he missed it") without talking to them, it would be safe to say that they'd agree w/ that philosophy unless somebody else can prove that philosophy to be wrong.

I will never call anybody out on a missed base appeal unless I'm 100% sure it was a missed base.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Never, I don't know Jerry Layne if he was sitting in my living room.

Why would the MLB umpires rule any different than how we're saying that we would on this play (ie, "150% sure that he missed it") without talking to them, it would be safe to say that they'd agree w/ that philosophy unless somebody else can prove that philosophy to be wrong.

I will never call anybody out on a missed base appeal unless I'm 100% sure it was a missed base.

If you can watch the real time video from 100 feet away and tell me that you are 100% sure he missed the base I will agree with you. But after watching the play in slow motion I still can't tell if he touched it our not...it is that close.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

If you can watch the real time video from 100 feet away and tell me that you are 100% sure he missed the base I will agree with you. But after watching the play in slow motion I still can't tell if he touched it our not...it is that close.

I get your point, but neither camera angle was from the same angle as Layne so it's an unfair comparison. I can't tell from the camera angles either, but Layne was in proper position to see the touch/miss. Was there another place he could've been to still see the touch at home plate? I don't know 4 man mechanics.

[johnnyg08]

From what I can see, he was lined up 3blx and looking right at R2 for the touch. Yes, he was over 100' away from the touch, so R2 must have missed it by a lot. As soon as F1 stepped off to execute the appeal, he knew he had the call, stepped toward 3B and banged him out. As others have stated, replay is inconclusive. Assuming they're going to use replay for this type of thing, they're going to need overhead cameras at each base to give them a respectable angle that can't be obtained by an umpire at field level.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

From what I can see, he was lined up 3blx and looking right at R2 for the touch. Yes, he was over 100' away from the touch, so R2 must have missed it by a lot. As soon as F1 stepped off to execute the appeal, he knew he had the call, stepped toward 3B and banged him out. As others have stated, replay is inconclusive. Assuming they're going to use replay for this type of thing, they're going to need overhead cameras at each base to give them a respectable angle that can't be obtained by an umpire at field level.

If this play was reviewed by the NFL it was not have been overturned...is the evidence conclusive? Did you watch the video? If he misses the bag, and I am not saying he did, it is not by a lot.