Catching Ettiquette

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I don't care where the catcher catches the pitch. I've seen what I need to see before then. I just use him catching the ball as a timing mechanism. If I'm getting flack from the coach because the catcher is framing, I give the catcher an opportunity (between innings) to let the coach know where the pitch was and it was framed nicely.

-Josh

So basically, you are saying that you decided the pitch before it was through the zone. If you ignore F2 (as you stated), then you are deciding the call well before the ball crosses the plate and that is a fact. I've trained enough rookies to know that what you are doing is using tunnel vision and deciding the call before it happens. I can also guarantee you that you do not see very many breaking balls (good ones) because these have to be tracked all the way to the glove in order to decide what they are.

So you can discount John McSherry if you wish but I will tell you this, he was a fantastic man at the plate and a great teacher. His videos are still used by many instructors to teach rookies how to use everything at their disposal to make a proper decision on a pitch. I doubt very much if you could ever attain anything close to what John did.

Damn, again I let the BS at the LLWS and a total moron get me going.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

So basically, you are saying that you decided the pitch before it was through the zone. If you ignore F2 (as you stated), then you are deciding the call well before the ball crosses the plate and that is a fact. I've trained enough rookies to know that what you are doing is using tunnel vision and deciding the call before it happens. I can also guarantee you that you do not see very many breaking balls (good ones) because these have to be tracked all the way to the glove in order to decide what they are.

I completely respect your opinion on here, Ozzy, and normally agree with you. However, it is EXACTLY on breaking balls that we should not let the location of the catcher when he catches it sway our thinking. Not watching the glove doesn't mean we are necessarily using tunnel vision. I do stress with younger umps that they MUST watch the pitch ALL THE WAY through the zone - not just at the front, and definitely not just when it's way out front before the plate as some want to do.

Proper timing will allow you to absorb what you saw without calling what you THOUGHT you were going to see when the pitch hadn't even arrived yet.

Now that I've said that - one caveat. I can count the guys I've umpired that throw in the 90's on 1 finger (and in the interest of full disclosure, my zone was probably not at its best that game - to work at that speed consistently, I admit needing a lot more exposure to that speed); and 80's on both hands. McSherry dealt with 90's and the occasional 100. I will fully admit that at those speeds, the location of the glove might have some informatino for you. And at those speeds, the time that the ball is between plate and glove is REALLY miniscule.

But at 70's and low 80's, I think there's a bigger danger in missing pitches if you DO watch it past the back of the plate. Both erroneous strikes and erroneous balls.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Now that I've said that - one caveat. I can count the guys I've umpired that throw in the 90's on 1 finger.

Try 80mph from 46 feet. That ball gets on you quicker than a blink. Faster than MLB stuff. I've seen it twice. The catcher plays a HUGE roll, but yes, you've got to be ready for off-speed stuff. It ain't easy out there.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Try 80mph from 46 feet. That ball gets on you quicker than a blink. Faster than MLB stuff. I've seen it twice. The catcher plays a HUGE roll, but yes, you've got to be ready for off-speed stuff. It ain't easy out there.

Done that with the larger ball. And I agree. I find that release point easier to call, actually.

[gotblue?]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Done that with the larger ball. And I agree. I find that release point easier to call, actually.

I have done that with the larger ball, and I agree that the release point helps there. More recently, I had a kid purported to be throwing 80-82, from 50 feet. The release point (kid was about 6 feet) and the distance to the plate make it probably more difficult at the low end of the zone than anything thrown from 60'6" in the high 80's to mid 90's.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not watching the glove doesn't mean we are necessarily using tunnel vision.

It absolutely means you are using tunnel vision.

I do stress with younger umps that they MUST watch the pitch ALL THE WAY through the zone - not just at the front, and definitely not just when it's way out front before the plate as some want to do.

In order to be proficient as a plate umpire, you have to track the ball all the way to the mitt. YOU HAVE TO TRACK THE BALL ALL THE WAY TO THE MITT. Did I mention that YOU HAVE TO TRACK THE BALL ALL THE WAY TO THE MITT?

Proper timing will allow you to absorb what you saw without calling what you THOUGHT you were going to see when the pitch hadn't even arrived yet.

That is why, YOU HAVE TO TRACK THE BALL ALL THE WAY TO THE MITT.

But at 70's and low 80's, I think there's a bigger danger in missing pitches if you DO watch it past the back of the plate. Both erroneous strikes and erroneous balls.

EEK. I'm not going to say it.

More pitches are missed due to not tracking the ball completely than by just watching it through the zone.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Damn, again I let the BS at the LLWS and a total moron get me going.

Easy now Ozzy.

The old "call the ball, not the situation" is classic sophomore year umpire stuff. He'll learn. (hopefully)

p.s. I've had to be unscrewed out of the ceiling over this LL nonsense. It's hit way too close home for me this year.