Knew it was coming

[mbyron]

6 umpires on a 60' field, and they STILL want replay?

Is there such a thing as overkilling overkill?

[Rich Ives]

Maybe they're just really tired of having their umpires ripped to shreds on the internet.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Maybe they're just really tired of having their umpires ripped to shreds on the internet.

Maybe they could use other criteria in picking umpires other than "how many years have you volunteered for Little League" or "how can we recognize a retired District Adminstrator who's umpired about 20 games in his life -- how about umpiring the LLWS?"

[MD Longhorn]

The fact that they use volunteers as umpires is one of the things at the core of their problems.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The fact that they use volunteers as umpires is one of the things at the core of their problems.

It's a lot more complicated than that. I am a Little League volunteer who also happens to work games at other levels (HS, college, etc.). I teach at a LL junior umpire clinic every season and do what I can to make our umpiring better during the tournament season.

I do have the feeling that there are a significant number of umpires and others within Little League that think that anyone who takes money for umpiring should fall lower on the ladder than those selfless volunteers who do nothing but umpire LL baseball. And that, IMO, is a complete crock of crap.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's a lot more complicated than that. I am a Little League volunteer who also happens to work games at other levels (HS, college, etc.). I teach at a LL junior umpire clinic every season and do what I can to make our umpiring better during the tournament season.

I do have the feeling that there are a significant number of umpires and others within Little League that think that anyone who takes money for umpiring should fall lower on the ladder than those selfless volunteers who do nothing but umpire LL baseball. And that, IMO, is a complete crock of crap.

I agree. I think 90% of us love the sport we officiate (probably more). However, many if not most of us who bother to put in the time to learn, grow, and improve would not participate in this hobby without some monetary compensation. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But what it does mean, is that the leagues that DON'T pay are really left with a good number of umpires that do not work hard to improve. I'm not saying there aren't great LL umpires out there... but I believe they are the vast minority as many of the really good ones stick to leagues that pay.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's a lot more complicated than that. I am a Little League volunteer who also happens to work games at other levels (HS, college, etc.). I teach at a LL junior umpire clinic every season and do what I can to make our umpiring better during the tournament season.

I do have the feeling that there are a significant number of umpires and others within Little League that think that anyone who takes money for umpiring should fall lower on the ladder than those selfless volunteers who do nothing but umpire LL baseball. And that, IMO, is a complete crock of crap.

I agree with you that it is more complicated. But you get what you pay for. When you pay people nothing and want them to go across the country or world to work, you eliminate a lot of good people that do not see the value in working games. I worked LL for the first few years and we were paid. The reason they were paid is that the local park district was the body that assigned all umpires for all games at the park district. So they paid umpires to work those games. Actually I thought that was the case all over the country until a few years after that. You do not have to pay them $1000 a game, just enough to cover expenses and reasonable fees. I cannot think that is good for the overall quality and it shows when we watch these games.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with you that it is more complicated. But you get what you pay for. When you pay people nothing and want them to go across the country or world to work, you eliminate a lot of good people that do not see the value in working games. I worked LL for the first few years and we were paid. The reason they were paid is that the local park district was the body that assigned all umpires for all games at the park district. So they paid umpires to work those games. Actually I thought that was the case all over the country until a few years after that. You do not have to pay them $1000 a game, just enough to cover expenses and reasonable fees. I cannot think that is good for the overall quality and it shows when we watch these games.

Peace

LL does pay for expenses for those who work regionals and WS games. I worked a Senior Regional (in Peru/LaSalle) and we were put in a hotel room and given meals, etc. We also received shirts and hats to wear during the games.

As far as game fees, well, I don't really care about that. I don't do LL for the money -- I consider that part of my year community service and it's completely voluntary for me to work those games. I contend that there are enough *good* LL umpires out there that they could staff the LLWS with good umpire volunteers from now until the end of time and there wouldn't be a problem with the umpiring. But the criteria reward something other than umpiring skill as the top item on the list, and that's why we get to see what we see as often as we do.

[MD Longhorn]

You might also add to that - that the people deciding who should umpire these games have nearly no knowledge of umpiring either - thus the reason for their horribly faulty decisions on who should go. I used to watch the LLWS every time it was on - but as I got better at umpiring, I grew to the point where I could not watch these travesties of umpiring on the field.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I used to watch the LLWS every time it was on - but as I got better at umpiring, I grew to the point where I could not watch these travesties of umpiring on the field.

There is a LLWS for another division in my hometown and I don't go anymore because every year I would see something from an umpire or umpires that would drive me nuts.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

LL does pay for expenses for those who work regionals and WS games. I worked a Senior Regional (in Peru/LaSalle) and we were put in a hotel room and given meals, etc. We also received shirts and hats to wear during the games.

Well that is deep in the playoff, but if you never pay someone at the local level you might not ever get that opportunity to make that choice.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

As far as game fees, well, I don't really care about that. I don't do LL for the money -- I consider that part of my year community service and it's completely voluntary for me to work those games. I contend that there are enough *good* LL umpires out there that they could staff the LLWS with good umpire volunteers from now until the end of time and there wouldn't be a problem with the umpiring. But the criteria reward something other than umpiring skill as the top item on the list, and that's why we get to see what we see as often as we do.

And that is your right Rich. And I have no problem with your position on this. But the problem is that there are people that would not do that and might give more to community service in other ways. I think working a game as an official in many ways is not least I could do for community service as I might find baseball game a very small contribution to a community. It does not mean you have to share that opinion, it just means I know people that give back to kids in other ways and would find this as minimal in a larger scale. And in my opinion, to guarantee you will get a wider pool is to pay guys. Now if I was in your shoes and I worked a tournament and they paid those expenses like you referenced I would consider doing those games, but not the entire season I would not. But this is why I say officiating is very personal. What gets us on the road to work a game varies so much.

Peace

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's a lot more complicated than that. I am a Little League volunteer who also happens to work games at other levels (HS, college, etc.). I teach at a LL junior umpire clinic every season and do what I can to make our umpiring better during the tournament season.

I do have the feeling that there are a significant number of umpires and others within Little League that think that anyone who takes money for umpiring should fall lower on the ladder than those selfless volunteers who do nothing but umpire LL baseball. And that, IMO, is a complete crock of crap.

I've have travelled the exact same road in LLBB as Rich (my last year was '06) including teaching at a yearly junior umpire clinic; and I work HS baseball and college softball. He is 100% on target with his comments. I've seen it from the inside having attended one of LL's week long regional umpiring schools, and having umpired one of their LLBB regionals...complete with the whole televised by ESPN deal.

The LL regional umpire staff on site micro manages the umpires (including, as an example, having a staff member handle the HP meeting and ground rules), replay will just allow them to exert more control over the game and provide them with something else to wave over the umpire's heads to make a good many of them more nervous than they already will be when they step on the field.

Let me add to what mybyron said, yes they're "overkilling the overkill." Add reply to the 200 ft. fences, 6 umpires, and 60 ft. base paths...heaven help the umpire's who'll be working the various regionals.