Partner Evaluations

[JJ]

There's a great thread going that Tim C started about whether or not coaches should evaluate umpires.
My question is related - do you solicit comments/criticisms/evaluations from your partner
A) After EVERY game?
B) Sometimes, depending on the partner?
C) Sometimes, depending on how the game went?
D) Never.

I'll post my 2 cents worth later. Thanks.

JJ

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by JJ

There's a great thread going that Tim C started about whether or not coaches should evaluate umpires.
My question is related - do you solicit comments/criticisms/evaluations from your partner
A) After EVERY game?
B) Sometimes, depending on the partner?
C) Sometimes, depending on how the game went?
D) Never.

I'll post my 2 cents worth later. Thanks.

JJ

B) Whenever I am working with someone whose opinion I value. Someone who has proven himself to be a quality umpire and have good judgment on the abilities of others. Case in point: After working a tough area game with one of our best guys, I asked his opinion of my plate work that day. His answer was: " Not a perfect game, but there are no more than five guys in our assc. who could have called that game as well as you did today". In walks another of our umpires, whose son happens to play on the home team. Unsolicited he tells me "That was nowhere near the best game I've ever seen you call. You missed a bunch of pitches, IMO". This guy comes nowhere near meeting the parameters I set forth early in this reply, so I would never ask him his opinion of my game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JJ

There's a great thread going that Tim C started about whether or not coaches should evaluate umpires.
My question is related - do you solicit comments/criticisms/evaluations from your partner
A) After EVERY game?
B) Sometimes, depending on the partner?
C) Sometimes, depending on how the game went?
D) Never.

I'll post my 2 cents worth later. Thanks.

JJ

I found that I went through a progression as I advanced. When I first started varsity, I was put with good partners on good games. I always asked for input in those games.

For a couple years, I was put on medium and bad games with bad partners. I'd guess I got those games because (a) my assignor needed to use the bad guys to cover games, and (b) I was supposed to keep them out of trouble. I usually did not seek input from those partners.

Now I seem to get mainly good games with good partners again. We talk after every game about any miscommunication, strange plays, or other issues.

The tone of my current postgame is more "what could we as a crew have done better?" Earlier in my career the tone would have been "what could I as a novice have done better?" Except for games where I'm 2/3 of the 1.5 umpire crew, I always do a postgame.

[bob jenkins]

I ask every time. How well I listen depends on who the person is.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I ask every time. How well I listen depends on who the person is.

Is that why you asked me as you were pulling away in your car?

[IowaMike]

I have one guy who I work a lot of games with. We have always agreed to be brutally honest with each other in an attempt to make ourselves better both individually, and as a crew. I will always listen to what he has to say. We do a post game after every assignment together.

When I work other games it depends on who I am working with. If it's an inexperienced guy I don't ask for feedback, though I will gladly listen to any they offer. When I work varsity games with well respected, very experienced guys I always ask for feedback on how they felt we worked together. Likewise, there are newer guys who will ask me for feedback and many other experienced guys who never would ask for my opinion because they view me as newer and far less experienced.

I like getting feedback from other umpires and don't really have much of an ego about it. Not everything I get is of value, but I want to get better and sometimes a guy you don't work with that much will see something that your more regular partner does not.

[UmpJM]

JJ,

I'll ask pretty much every time, regardless of my perception of my partner's ability relative to mine.

JM

[johnnyg08]

I ask every time...I rarely get feedback that I can use...but I've been surprised before...

When asked to give feedback, I do, but the guys never seem too receptive...

It's tough sometimes to make the most out of your post games. I'm so focused on my job on the diamond that it's tough for me to give a thorough evaluation...I've written notes on the back of the lineup card between innings when I'm working with a new official who has specifically told me that they want feedback. Then I tend to forget less if I write it down between 1/2 innings.

[briancurtin]

I usually work with a small group of partners who I know pretty well, and we tend to just go right into discussion when necessary. If it's a newer partner I'll ask and see how far they want to go and what they have to offer.

I'm working with Bob Jenkins next weekend so surely I will listen closely.

[rookieblue]

Like some, I always ask; how much weight I give the feedback depends on the partner.

The tone of my current postgame is more "what could we as a crew have done better?" Earlier in my career the tone would have been "what could I as a novice have done better?"

I'm still in the latter position. Sometimes I'll joke, "how we doin', Coach?", the meaning being that I'm still learning my way around.

Right now I seem to be getting good games with really excellent partners, so I listen very closely!

[JJ]

After every game, no matter who I work with, I ask, "Did I do anything that confused or amazed you?"
The more experienced guys recognize that I'm asking if they saw anything that needs to be addressed, and the novices are given the opportunity to have me explain things I did and why I did them.
I listen to everything, and like several of the posters have noted, I consider the source and take what I think is useful to "up my game".
Too often new guys are intimidated by veterans, when in fact I've discovered that some newcomers have been to camps and clinics recently and have been digging in the manuals and are actually sharper in some areas than one would think.
The flip side, of course, is the partner who never asks for a critique and just dashes out the door. Experience has shown me which one I have a better chance of seeing on a D1 field someday.

JJ

[JRutledge]

When I work the plate I always ask what my partner thinks about my zone. I just want to see if they see something that I might be doing. That does not mean I take every word to heart or even sometimes agree. But I do ask.

Other things I may not ask about, but I like to talk about plays that were tough and if what I did comes up that will be something I will keep in mind.

Bottom line is I learned long time ago to always consider the source and if I only pick up one thing someone tells me that is a good thing. It might just reaffirm what I am already doing or make me rethink. Most of the things I do are based on training anyway so I am not going to learn something that new in a conversation with a partner. And unfortunately in many cases I work with very few guys that are more experienced than me so it appears sometimes people are reluctant to say much unless I press them. I do not rely on these conversations to shape ultimately what I do.

Peace

[jkumpire]

I always have some kind of post-game discussion, unless my partner does not want one.

Since I am a local HS rules interpreter and one of the older umpires in my area, I get asked a lot of questions, and I end up working with a lot of younger people. So I make it a point to offer an evaluation and ask for an evaluation. Sometimes the evaluation lasts for a long time, other times it doesn't. A lot of times I will ask for the evaluation first, which opens up the conversation.

In my area we have a lot of people who have mechanical faults, and who do not have a great knowledge of the rules. So when I get a chance I always throw my 0.02 in.

The thing about it is I am trying to learn as much as my partner does, I have not done a perfect game yet...

[ozzy6900]

After every game, I invite my partner to critique me as we are walking off.
"So, how was my zone?"
"How was my positioning today?"
Usually my partner will invite my critique after he is through.

There are several of us who will sit in the parking lot and go over the game with a fine tooth comb. We have been at this for many years and love working together.

[jicecone]

Probably for my first 10 years I couldn't get enough feedback. Of course depending upon the partner, it was a matter of how I weighed the info. With a new partner, I will generally start the discuusion about how I might have banged a call or about a particular play and get the feel for how deep my partner wants the discussion to go. With an old partner he might just say Jim, you sucked behind the plate tonight and we go from there. We would always tell rookies that no matter what the evaulation, sit and act interested and say thanks for the info. Eventually you will figure out if should toss the evaluation or review it to learn.

For the most part though, if you have been doing this long enough, you know. But, there is always something new to learn. As Ozzy has already implied, how many times do you find yourself and your partner sitting in your chairs outside your car, an hour or so after the game, only two cars left in the lot. Discussing the game, the association and other scenerio's from other games.

You got to Love it Baby.