Multiple Obstructions

[MD Longhorn]

This came up a few years ago and was originally a softball play, and I posted it then - generating some lively discussion. It came up again while sitting under the Umpire Tree last week, so I thought I'd see if it generates any new thoughts this time around, and if the conclusion is different for either OBR or FED than it is in ASA or other softball codes...

No one on base, B hits the ball between the outfielders. As he's rounding first, F3 is standing on the bag. BU rules and signals obstruction, mentally noting that this runner would have gotten to third base without the obstruction.

B rounding 2nd, and the throw, heading from CF to a deep SS, is dropped by the SS. While rounding 2nd, he collides with an inattentive F4 watching the play. BU resignals the obstruction, and based on where the ball is and where the runner is, again decides that based on this OBS alone, he should get 3rd.

Runner slides safely into third base.

PU and BU discuss, and both had the same awards - but both feel that had NEITHER obstruction occured, AND the misplay at F6 happened as it did, this runner likely would have scored.

What do you do?

[UmpJM]

mbcrowder,

Score the runner.

JM

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mbcrowder,

Score the runner.

JM

Which ruleset, and by what rule (and if necessary, logic)

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ruleset, and by what rule (and if necessary, logic)

Any rule set. The logic is to award base(s) so as to nullify the act of obstruction. If the ump thought the runner would have scored absent the obstruction(s), then score him.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Any rule set. The logic is to award base(s) so as to nullify the act of obstruction. If the ump thought the runner would have scored absent the obstruction(s), then score him.

Logically, I agree.

However (depending on the rule set), the rule says to determine immediately upon the incident of obstruction what base to protect to - and award that base. How do we support, using the rules as printed, the award of home. (Yes, I know ... we can simply say we thought she'd score on either of the OBS's, but that avoids my point).

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ruleset, and by what rule (and if necessary, logic)

What dash said.

JM

[UmpJM]

mbcrowder,

The initial determination of protection on an obstruction call where the ball remains in play is provisional; "post obstruction evidence" (i.e., what happens AFTER the obstruction occurs) should be considered in determining the actual final award(s).

JM

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mbcrowder,

The initial determination of protection on an obstruction call where the ball remains in play is provisional; "post obstruction evidence" (i.e., what happens AFTER the obstruction occurs) should be considered in determining the actual final award(s).

JM

1+

-Josh

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Logically, I agree.

However (depending on the rule set), the rule says to determine immediately upon the incident of obstruction what base to protect to - and award that base. How do we support, using the rules as printed, the award of home. (Yes, I know ... we can simply say we thought she'd score on either of the OBS's, but that avoids my point).

The MLBUM says in section 6.20 & 6.21 that, with type b obstruction, that you make an initial assessment but allow play to continue until its conclusion and THEN make the final decision as to where the protection was. They have example plays where the protected-to base changed as the play developed and concluded.

[mbyron]

How about this, which happened last night: B1 grounds to F6, who throws high to F3. The ball is over F3's head and to the HP side of the base; he lands right in front of the runner, who collides with him. The ball ricocheted off the lip of the dugout steps (in play) and back into the infield.

What's the call? Assume NFHS rules (would OBR be different?).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

How about this, which happened last night: B1 grounds to F6, who throws high to F3. The ball is over F3's head and to the HP side of the base; he lands right in front of the runner, who collides with him. The ball ricocheted off the lip of the dugout steps (in play) and back into the infield.

What's the call? Assume NFHS rules (would OBR be different?).

I assume by "ricochet and back into the infield" you mean BR would have ended up at first without any obstruction.

That's the award in both FED and OBR -- the OBS was prior to first, so the minimum award is first.

On the OP, I agree with the "award home" answers.