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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 09:06pm
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Video Collision/OBS

YouTube - ACC Championship Game (FSU vs. NC State): Collision at home plate (part 1 of 3)

A play from this past weekend. OBS was called on F2....

NC State Coachs comment:

.."After Schaeffer was taken from the field, N.C. State coach Elliot Avent argued at length with home-plate umpire David Savage and Savage's crew, asking for Ramsey to be called out and ejected, and for the run to be removed.

But the umpires determined that the play was a result of Schaeffer obstructing the baseline without the ball the throw hadn't yet arrived from right fielder Drew Poulk and they also ruled that Ramsey did not use unnecessary force.

"In our opinion," Savage said in a statement released by the ACC, "what we saw and the four of us agreed we did not have (the runner) lowering his shoulder, throwing his forearms out or throwing an elbow as far as doing anything that we thought would be ejectable."

In postgame interviews, Avent thanked the umpires for listening to his complaints, but he insisted the call was "totally wrong."

"We felt the wrong decision was made," Avent said, acknowledging that onlookers told him he would have a different opinion once he saw television replays. "I might change my mind a little bit, but I'm not going to change my mind a lot. I'm not going to change my mind that it was 15 feet up the line, inside the line, and the guy could have run around him."


Seems that was the right call. Runner appeared to be bracing for the collision as opposed to trying to take him out.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 09:28pm
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Good video...at what point do they explain the ruling and did they explain it correctly?
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 09:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Good video...at what point do they explain the ruling and did they explain it correctly?

I watched most of it, and in addition I guess there are part 2 and 3 to this, but never heard the announcers say there was an OBS call. I read an article online detailing the play. With everything going on at the plate, I dont think the announcers picked up on any type of OBS call by the PU.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 09:57pm
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Do we all agree that this video is an example of OBS?
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:01pm
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I haven't done NCAA ball in a few years but, that was definetly OBS on the catcher and defintely a runner that went through him. I could not tell for sure if the catcher stepped into the runner but, the runner did very little to avoid the contact. The runner puts his head down 3/4 of the way and never deviates from heading to the plate. JMO
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Do we all agree that this video is an example of OBS?
Why is there a question about it, he did not have the ball, and was in the runners way.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:07pm
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So while the catcher can't block the plate w/o the ball and the runner did nothing to avoid the collision...what do we call? Did they call anything on this play?
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
So while the catcher can't block the plate w/o the ball and the runner did nothing to avoid the collision...what do we call? Did they call anything on this play?
PU called OBS
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
So while the catcher can't block the plate w/o the ball and the runner did nothing to avoid the collision...what do we call? Did they call anything on this play?
Yes, they called Obstruction. In college ball you can agressively try to reach the plate with a player in your way, which he did.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:31pm
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RULE 8 / BASE RUNNING 103 NCAA

b. If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly
without possession of the ball, obstruction shall be called. The umpire
shall point and call, “That’s obstruction.” The umpire shall let the play
continue until all play has ceased, call time and award any bases that are
justified in Rule 2. The obstructed runner is awarded at least one base
beyond the base last touched legally before the obstruction.
A.R.—If the base runner collides flagrantly, the runner shall be declared safe on the
obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead.


Just before this it uses the word "encouraged to avoid" when referring to collisions by runners and defensive players.

After looking at the rule, NCAA has created a broad line for the umpire to follow and I think this was a border line case, By NCAA rules. Avoidance does not seem to be stressed as much as FED rules.

Not having been there I might have to agree with the call. OBS only!!!!!!
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
Why is there a question about it, he did not have the ball, and was in the runners way.
The wording of the rule is pretty broad as somebody else pointed out, that's why I'm asking. I've read the rule many times and I agree that it sure looked like OBS, but R3 also went right through him...that's why I'm asking about it so hopefully I don't screw it up when I have the play.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
The wording of the rule is pretty broad as somebody else pointed out, that's why I'm asking. I've read the rule many times and I agree that it sure looked like OBS, but R3 also went right through him...that's why I'm asking about it so hopefully I don't screw it up when I have the play.
Unless you doing NCAA ball or a league doing straight OBR you will not have the problem. Call an out and eject in FED and any other league that frowns on malicious contact.
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Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:54pm
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You're right...in men's amateur baseball in Minnesota they use OBR on 1b,2b,3b and NCAA collision at home. That's the one rule set I have to worry about after mid-May regarding this type of play. In fact they had an ejection on a play very, very similar to this play in the state championship last year...the runner raised his elbow up under F2's chin from what I heard.
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Old Thu Jun 03, 2010, 07:43am
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Yes, NFHS is different from NCAA and OBR, and this was definitely OBS in all three codes, BUT, I am of the opinion that the NFHS malicious contact rule should be adopted at the other two levels. Collisions (train wrecks if you prefer) happen in baseball, but deliberatly running over a fielder like Pete Rose and Ray Fosse is not baseball at any level. Just my two cents.

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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Thu Jun 03, 2010 at 12:08pm. Reason: Clarified Pete Rose notation.
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Old Thu Jun 03, 2010, 08:10am
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The OBS is obvious. The NCAA rule seems to allow collisions of this sort, leaving it up to umpire judgment whether the contact is "flagrant." I'm not going to second guess the PU here: he said it wasn't flagrant, and it's his call in his conference.

So IMO the rule was applied correctly. Beyond that, it's a judgment call.

I also agree that in a FED game we'd have an out and an ejection here. MC supersedes OBS.
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