2 Collision Questions

[bossman72]

Straight MLB rules.

1) On a play at the bases (force or tag), the runner plows into the fielder much like as he does at home plate who either has the ball or is waiting for the throw. Do you have nothing here?

2) Play at the plate and the runner crashes into the catcher before ball gets to catcher. Would this constitute intentional interference with a thrown ball?

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Straight MLB rules.

1) On a play at the bases (force or tag), the runner plows into the fielder much like as he does at home plate who either has the ball or is waiting for the throw. Do you have nothing here?

2) Play at the plate and the runner crashes into the catcher before ball gets to catcher. Would this constitute intentional interference with a thrown ball?

The answer to both would be NO as long as the runner is within reach of the base.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Actually, the answer to #1 is yes (I'm sure DG meant this). Yes you have nothing here. If the fielder is waiting for the throw, it is umpire judgment whether or not he was in the immediate act of fielding the ball. If anything, obstruction may be called if the umpire felt that the fielder was not entitled to be there blocking the runner's path.

In #2, the catcher can stand on the tracks when the train is coming in, but again, he is liable to be obstructing unless the throw is imminent. If he gets run over without the ball, the only thing he's gonna get is a headache, as he is not protected by any interference rule.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Actually, the answer to #1 is yes (I'm sure DG meant this). Yes you have nothing here. If the fielder is waiting for the throw, it is umpire judgment whether or not he was in the immediate act of fielding the ball. If anything, obstruction may be called if the umpire felt that the fielder was not entitled to be there blocking the runner's path.

In #2, the catcher can stand on the tracks when the train is coming in, but again, he is liable to be obstructing unless the throw is imminent. If he gets run over without the ball, the only thing he's gonna get is a headache, as he is not protected by any interference rule.

Thanks for correction. Lot of difference between "do you have anything?" and "do you have nothing?" I read it wrong. Yes, I have nothing on this play. The most common play is the runner taking out the pivot man at 2B, difference being that they do it sliding vs. barreling the catcher at home plate. They go in sliding because they don't want to get a ball between the eyes, which is not going to happen at the plate. If you do not get down going into 2B, you will, sooner or later, get one between the eyes.

[lmathews19]

Here's another collision question. FED rules. I was working a showcase tournament at the University of Tennessee this weekend (teams like the East Cobb Astros and the like) and I had 3 calls at 2nd base that the coaches came out and spoke with me about.

The first one, R1. Batter hits a ball to second and the 2B goes for a double play. The runner on first doesn't slide going into 2nd base and collides with the shortstop interfering with his throw and he throws it wild. I call interference and an automatic double play. I know it's the PU's call, but I was on top of it and called it b/c I had yet to turn towards first to see if the batter was safe/out.

The next day we had the same team I made the call on. Same situation and the kid barely bumps shortstop and doesn't slide or interfere with the throw. I got nothing and he goes ballistic saying I called his kid out for not sliding. Whatever coach.

The next day. Kid slides in to second on a double play ball with hands up and unintentionally knocks the ball out of the shortstops hand. I was the BU and the PU called nothing. The coach goes nuts, gets confined to the dugout. Then tries to come out and coach third base again and makes a raucous and gets himself tossed (trying to pump his players up or something). What exactly is the ruling on these situations? I know they don't have to slide at second base, but interfering with the throw is an out all day correct?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by lmathews19

Here's another collision question. FED rules. I was working a showcase tournament at the University of Tennessee this weekend (teams like the East Cobb Astros and the like) and I had 3 calls at 2nd base that the coaches came out and spoke with me about.

The first one, R1. Batter hits a ball to second and the 2B goes for a double play. The runner on first doesn't slide going into 2nd base and collides with the shortstop interfering with his throw and he throws it wild. I call interference and an automatic double play. I know it's the PU's call, but I was on top of it and called it b/c I had yet to turn towards first to see if the batter was safe/out.

The next day we had the same team I made the call on (the coach is a real prick...Guerry Baldwin if you know him). Same situation and the kid barely bumps shortstop and doesn't slide or interfere with the throw. I got nothing and he goes ballistic saying I called his kid out for not sliding. Whatever coach.

The next day. Kid slides in to second on a double play ball with hands up and unintentionally knocks the ball out of the shortstops hand. I was the BU and the PU called nothing. The coach goes nuts, gets confined to the dugout. Then tries to come out and coach third base again and makes a raucous and gets himself tossed (trying to pump his players up or something). What exactly is the ruling on these situations? I know they don't have to slide at second base, but interfering with the throw is an out all day correct?

In the first one, you had the call on it. If F6 doesn't get the throw off, it still belongs to the BU. Once the ball turns you to 1st, the INT call goes to the PU.

In the second play, did you tell the coach that you didn't call his kid out for not sliding, you called him out for INT?

In the third play, I don't have a clear picture of what happened, so I won't comment on the non-call, but if the coach went nuts, I would have gone straight to the ejection. You don't have to restrict a coach to a dugout. It is an option only, and I've never used the option in all the years it has been available. I feel that if a coach does something that merits restriction, it merits an ejection. Especially after him getting in your face three times. It sounds to me like he "struck out" with you.

[lmathews19]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In the first one, you had the call on it. If F6 doesn't get the throw off, it still belongs to the BU. Once the ball turns you to 1st, the INT call goes to the PU.

In the second play, did you tell the coach that you didn't call his kid out for not sliding, you called him out for INT?

In the third play, I don't have a clear picture of what happened, so I won't comment on the non-call, but if the coach went nuts, I would have gone straight to the ejection. You don't have to restrict a coach to a dugout. It is an option only, and I've never used the option in all the years it has been available. I feel that if a coach does something that merits restriction, it merits an ejection. Especially after him getting in your face three times. It sounds to me like he "struck out" with you.

It was a showcase tournament. Before it started the tournament director told us to have patience with the players and coaches and be lenient. They teach us in our association that an ejection should be our last resort. First, confine them to the dugout, if they still don't shutup, dump their a$$.

[bossman72]

IMathews- we're talking straight MLB rules that have no slide rule period.

So in your first 2 situations, there is no call. Apparently from the information in this thread, he can legally break up a DP this way. No INT call.

In the third sit, if the player does anything like swat at the ball (ala A-Rod) or put his hands up, then yes, that's INT.


Now, if there was a force play slide rule much like NFHS and NCAA, then the first 2 situations are definitely INT.

Also, don't drop names of coaches like that on these forums - could get into some trouble that way.

[lmathews19]

Originally Posted by bossman72

IMathews- we're talking straight MLB rules that have no slide rule period.

So in your first 2 situations, there is no call. Apparently from the information in this thread, he can legally break up a DP this way. No INT call.

In the third sit, if the player does anything like swat at the ball (ala A-Rod) or put his hands up, then yes, that's INT.


Now, if there was a force play slide rule much like NFHS and NCAA, then the first 2 situations are definitely INT.

Also, don't drop names of coaches like that on these forums - could get into some trouble that way.

I'm sorry bossman, I meant that we were playing NFHS rules. I don't believe I mentioned that. I also don't believe you're understand my first situation correctly. Not only did he not slide, he rammed the shortstop that was getting ready to make a throw causing him to throw wild. To my knowledge, this would even be INT in MLB, correct? I was told that there is not a mandatory slide rule unless it's at the plate, but if they interfere with the play then it's interference, that's what I called. Talk to me more about the madatory slide thing. I know that when they slide, they have to slide into the base, and if they don't it's automatic double play also, correct?

As for the names of coaches, my apologies for that. I wasn't thinking when I was typing and immediatly after I hit 'submit' I knew I shouldn't have included his name. I just know he's a name many people and umpires are familiar with. I realize I shouldn't have included it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by lmathews19

Here's another collision question. FED rules. I was working a showcase tournament at the University of Tennessee this weekend (teams like the East Cobb Astros and the like) and I had 3 calls at 2nd base that the coaches came out and spoke with me about.

Bossman72,

He did say FED rules originally.

lmathews19, if #1 had happened in a MLB game, it would not be interference, since there is no slide or avoid type rule in place. However, it probably is not going to happen very often, since the fielder will happily throw one right into the face of a non-sliding runner, teaching that runner to get down or run away.

I've worked a showcase type tournament at Qualcomm Stadium before, and I don't remember anyone telling us to take it easy on the ejections, but usually in those things the coaches don't give the umps much trouble anyway, since it's an exhibition.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by lmathews19

I was told that there is not a mandatory slide rule unless it's at the plate, but if they interfere with the play then it's interference, that's what I called. Talk to me more about the madatory slide thing. I know that when they slide, they have to slide into the base, and if they don't it's automatic double play also, correct?

There is no mandatory slide rule in NFHS (FED). FED has the force play slide rule where, if there's a force play, the player must either slide directly into the bag (and legally; check your rule book for definition of illegal slide), or veer off away from the pivot man. If he doesn't do either, it's a double play.

Players are never required to slide- ever.

Hopefully this clears it up for you.

As for the names of coaches, my apologies for that. I wasn't thinking when I was typing and immediatly after I hit 'submit' I knew I shouldn't have included his name. I just know he's a name many people and umpires are familiar with. I realize I shouldn't have included it.

It's ok- i just didn't want you to somehow get into trouble by having that bite you in the ace.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I would have gone straight to the ejection. You don't have to restrict a coach to a dugout. It is an option only, and I've never used the option in all the years it has been available. I feel that if a coach does something that merits restriction, it merits an ejection. Especially after him getting in your face three times. It sounds to me like he "struck out" with you.

I agree with Steve on this point. Why would I want to restrict a coach to the dugout and give him the oppertunity to snipe me the rest of the day. Give 'em the gate and get on with the game.

Are there times when restriction is good? Of course, but restricting a coach for arguing a call is not one of them.

[DG]

Restriction vs. ejection is required for all but 6 infractions in my state for HS ball. Most apply to players, but some could apply to coaches. Ejection is a severe penalty to the school, coach and/or player and must be reported, restrictions we don't even report. Examples; a coach complaining about balls and strikes is restricted, and any further commentary he will be ejected. Player or coach disrespectfully addresses an umpire (ie "you suck"), ejection.

For summer ball, the gloves are off. There are no restrictions.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally Posted by lmathews19

As for the names of coaches, my apologies for that. I wasn't thinking when I was typing and immediatly after I hit 'submit' I knew I shouldn't have included his name. I just know he's a name many people and umpires are familiar with. I realize I shouldn't have included it.

You can go back and edit your message... remove the name or #### it out. Might be a good idea. This stuff does become a rather permanent record.

[lmathews19]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

You can go back and edit your message... remove the name or #### it out. Might be a good idea. This stuff does become a rather permanent record.

Thanks alot man. I didn't know that. No more names for me