Joyce misses one

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, we don't "concern" ourselves, but you can't tell me that Joyce didn't know that the pitcher had a perfect game going. There is no way anybody that was paying one iota of attention could have not known, including the umpires.

If he did know, then that makes his call even better. He called what he had on the play rather than what everyone expected/wanted him to call on the play.

[UmpJM]

Uhhh guys,

(And, by "guys" I specifically mean jicecone, Kevin Finnerty, SanDiegoSteve, & Steven Tyler) How about we talk baseball here and leave the political discussion for forums that are focused on that.

It's not appropriate here and it detracts from the forum.

Thanks for considering my request.

JM

P.S. Happy Birthday, Steve! Ya' young whippersnapper.

[BaBa Booey]

I'm still waiting to hear what position Joyce should have been in....does anyone who said he was out of position actually have an answer?

[Kevin Finnerty]

He didn't bust @ss; he didn't get set; he followed the throw. So the play blew up on him. It wasn't his angle, it was how he strolled to it and stood there.

[BaBa Booey]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

He didn't bust @ss; he didn't get set; he followed the throw. So the play blew up on him. It wasn't his angle, it was how he strolled to it and stood there.

I would agree for the most part. It did look like he followed the throw, but I think he takes most of his plays at first in a standing set. Also, there is not much @ss busting to do when you only need to be a step or two off the line. He certainly wasn't late getting to his spot. But the following the throw was probably the major culprit, IMHO.

It would be easier and clearer if everyone explained their statements initially instead of generic criticism. Thank you Kevin.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

He didn't bust @ss; he didn't get set; he followed the throw. So the play blew up on him. It wasn't his angle, it was how he strolled to it and stood there.

I take all my all my calls at 1st base and many others on the bases from a standing set position. Placing your hands on your knees is not what defines being "set." On plays with the pitcher covering (or pressure from F3/F4) it is correct to be ready to move one way or the other in case of a bad throw. The umpire has to be able to adjust his angle and view of the play in a split-second's notice.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I take all my all my calls at 1st base and many others on the bases from a standing set position. Placing your hands on your knees is not what defines being "set." On plays with the pitcher covering (or pressure from F3/F4) it is correct to be ready to move one way or the other in case of a bad throw. The umpire has to be able to adjust his angle and view of the play in a split-second's notice.

I understand all of that, and I am a fan of the slightly bent knee, standing set and not the hands-on-knees set for calls at the bases.

My gripe is that a casual stroll that results in a correct call is one thing, and a casual stroll that results in a lack of readiness to make the proper call is glaring and certainly worthy of harsh criticism. When McClelland strolled into position and screwed up that tag play in the LCS, it became the most glaring reason that he screwed up that call. Joyce's strolling and not being set and then following the ball were the apparent reasons that he screwed up that call.

Hustling and the appearance of a willingness to hustle are both very important. Strolling into position, irrespective of where that position is, invites trouble. Joyce got some for a few reasons, but that's just one of them.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Hustling and the appearance of a willingness to hustle are both very important. Strolling into position, irrespective of where that position is, invites trouble. Joyce got some for a few reasons, but that's just one of them.

On this particular play, the proper setup is "one step fair", and to get in to that position and arrive there at the right moment does not require any hustle. A slight jog or stroll gets you where you need to be. Hustling just for the sake of hustling is called "false hustle," and looks ridiculous. Umpires should bust a$$ whenever necessary, but not in the case of a ground ball to the right side of the infield.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Well, we agree more than it may appear. I am speaking more to this one call and why he blew it, as well as what should be cited when analyzing and criticizing it. He appeared to not be ready for the call, and when he blew it, his apparent lack of readiness and the reasons behind it became a point of emphasis.

There.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rinbee

Your sarcasm is not necessary. A true official is one who wants to get at the right call, not obnoxiously defend a call regardless of the outcome. Yes, I will consult with other members of my crew if someone raises a legitimate question about a call. (If you prefer hugs, that's your choice.) I consider that doing my job to avoid what Joyce did -- ruin a game because of pride. What you call lack of experience on my part I consider arrogance on your part. The game, regardless of level, is for the players, not the umpires. Joyce blew it as we all do at times and we move on. But there is nothing wrong with doing everything possible to make it right when you have the chance to do so.

While he was wrong, he was certain the runner beat the throw. Why should he go to his crew for help? Because the defense was loudly protesting a play that would have given their pitcher a perfect game? Even as a basketball guy, I can understand that this is the type of play for which an ump cannot ask for help. He loses credibility simply by asking, whether he was right or wrong and whether the call is changed or not.

[Steven Tyler]

Please read this before it gets deleted for whatever reason I don't have clue.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Please read this before it gets deleted for whatever reason I don't have clue.

You (and Kevin) should "have a clue."

It's because every conversation between you two turns into a pissing match.

If you (and he) want to comment on the OP, please do so. Just don't talk to or about each other.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by rinbee

Your sarcasm is not necessary. A true official is one who wants to get at the right call, not obnoxiously defend a call regardless of the outcome. Yes, I will consult with other members of my crew if someone raises a legitimate question about a call. (If you prefer hugs, that's your choice.) I consider that doing my job to avoid what Joyce did -- ruin a game because of pride. What you call lack of experience on my part I consider arrogance on your part. The game, regardless of level, is for the players, not the umpires. Joyce blew it as we all do at times and we move on. But there is nothing wrong with doing everything possible to make it right when you have the chance to do so.

And what do you as an official do when you know you got the call right! Consult your crew to see if there is any difference of opinions? Joyce certainly thought he got the call right......why on earth would he consult with his crew when he knew he had the right call?

Based on your other posts I can see you have no clue as to what an umpires responsibilities are......or for that fact...how to be an umpire......lol

So stupid a post I had to log in to respond.....

Joel

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

And what do you as an official do when you know you got the call right! Consult your crew to see if there is any difference of opinions? Joyce certainly thought he got the call right......why on earth would he consult with his crew when he knew he had the right call?

Based on your other posts I can see you have no clue as to what an umpires responsibilities are......or for that fact...how to be an umpire......lol

So stupid a post I had to log in to respond.....

Joel

He isn't an umpire. He is a fan who is upset that the umpires didn't get together and sing Cumbaya on a safe/out judgment call. Any umpire (except the fool that overruled me last season) would know that it's just not done.

[greymule]

you can't tell me that Joyce didn't know that the pitcher had a perfect game going

Undoubtedly Joyce knew, but one guy who, back in 1956, didn't know a perfect game was in the works was a fella named Don Larsen. He knew he had a no-hitter going, but he was unaware that there was such a thing as a perfect game until it was explained to him after the game.