Joyce misses one

[robbie]

Um - watch the replay again. Good call. My son and I both instantly said "out" when seeing the first shot in real time. However, we both just as quickly said "wow - good call" when seeing the other angle slow motion replay. First baseman did not have control.

[tarheelcoach]

Joyce went into the Tiger clubhouse immediately after seeing the replay and apologized to Galaragga - I guess he was pretty sure he missed it.

Both guys are class acts for how they handled things.

[qcumpire]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach

Joyce went into the Tiger clubhouse immediately after seeing the replay and apologized to Galaragga - I guess he was pretty sure he missed it.

Both guys are class acts for how they handled things.

Reminds me of Richie Garcia in the 1996 playoffs. By the way, Am I the only one that thinks Joyce looks like Goose Gossage with the mustache?

[Texas Aggie]

In football, we talk about big calls in certain situations -- like late in a close game, or ejections anytime: we want what we call to show up on film. That is a want, not a require -- so we'll get what we have to get. Last fall in a very close game, I flagged a clip on what ended up being a run for a TD; my call, which was clearly correct and did show up on film (I'm sure; didn't see it, but didn't hear about it later) probably affected the winner.

To me, in baseball, in the 9th inning of a perfect game, that SAFE call has GOT to be clear. While I don't want a team to be cheated, the runner is going to be out unless he's clearly safe -- dropped ball, missed bag, etc. Do you baseball guys agree or disagree with this?

The thing is, most very close plays at first I see in college and MLB almost always go out. Has Joyce said what he was thinking during the call?

[cviverito]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Has Joyce said what he was thinking during the call?

Yeah. He said he thought the runner beat it.

[mick]

... Leyland sent Galaraga to the plate umpire Joyce with the lineup card where tears are flowing and Chevrolet gave Galaraga a Corvette.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by robbie

Um - watch the replay again. Good call. My son and I both instantly said "out" when seeing the first shot in real time. However, we both just as quickly said "wow - good call" when seeing the other angle slow motion replay. First baseman did not have control.

What does it say about you and your son's judgement who both missed the PITCHER catching the ball?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by robbie

Um - watch the replay again. Good call. My son and I both instantly said "out" when seeing the first shot in real time. However, we both just as quickly said "wow - good call" when seeing the other angle slow motion replay. First baseman did not have control.

Gee, even Jim Joyce doesn't agree with you.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...fect-game.html



But thanks for playing.....

[KMBReferee]

I just hope this doesn't affect Joyce for the rest of his MLB career. Situations like this will dog a pro official for years, especially now in the ESPN-era, where they talk about this 24 hrs/day for the next week. In fact, every time Joyce makes a call from here on out they'll probably show a clip of tonight.

My thoughts are with him and his family. There's no telling what kind of idiots are out there ready to harass him where ever he goes. All sports officials need to step up and have this guy's back.

[Nevadaref]

Again I don't work baseball, so this is coming from an official of other sports, but I'm looking for the opinion of you baseball guys on whether or not it would be acceptable on a play like this to go to Mr. 2nd Base Umpire and Mr. Home Plate Umpire and ask, "What did you see?"
The answers could generate: "Hmmmm... both of you think that I kicked it... Well, I thought that I was sure, but perhaps I should change that."
I didn't see any conference or even a conversation with another umpire take place, so I believe that there wasn't one. In hindsight we know that such could have saved Mr. Joyce much grief.

Obviously, I know that officials can go to partners for help on plays, but there are also certain plays where it just isn't appropriate due to the coverage area or look that other officials would have. Credibility concerns factor into this. So on a play like this at 1st what is the line of thinking of a baseball crew? Should he ask for help after the manager complains? Should help be offered from the 2B guy given the circumstances under which the play occurred? I can't imagine that unsolicited help would be welcome except for the most extreme cases. So from a baseball perspective, what's the scoop?

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Again I don't work baseball, so this is coming from an official of other sports, but I'm looking for the opinion of you baseball guys on whether or not it would be acceptable on a play like this to go to Mr. 2nd Base Umpire and Mr. Home Plate Umpire and ask, "What did you see?"
The answers could generate: "Hmmmm... both of you think that I kicked it... Well, I thought that I was sure, but perhaps I should change that."
I didn't see any conference or even a conversation with another umpire take place, so I believe that there wasn't one. In hindsight we know that such could have saved Mr. Joyce much grief.

Obviously, I know that officials can go to partners for help on plays, but there are also certain plays where it just isn't appropriate due to the coverage area or look that other officials would have. Credibility concerns factor into this. So on a play like this at 1st what is the line of thinking of a baseball crew? Should he ask for help after the manager complains? Should help be offered from the 2B guy given the circumstances under which the play occurred? I can't imagine that unsolicited help would be welcome except for the most extreme cases. So from a baseball perspective, what's the scoop?

In baseball we do not reverse a judgement call our partner made. We only offer our opinion to our partner if specifically asked. The umpire who made the original call can then choose to change the call based on the new information he has.

I don't like to say "never," but I simply can't imagine a professional crew getting together on a play like this. There are very rare times when the 1BU might ask the PU for help on a play at 1B but this play was not one of them. This is going to be the 1BU's call all the way and he is not going to change it.

[Nevadaref]

This may not be a popular sentiment, but what if the crew chief had taken the extraordinary step of going to the video replay despite the rules stating that this isn't a reviewable play? Basically, given the circumstances, just do it anyway and say the heck with it.

He could learn two things:
1. the 1BU got the call right. Then he knows that they didn't ruin a perfect game, and he takes a fine or a couple game suspension. Given the circumstances, he would be likely to get a great deal of support from the players, managers, fans, and analysts. It might even lead to a rule change.

2. the 1BU kicked the call. The change could be made with certainty and instead of the 1BU getting blasted and possibly ruining his career, the focus would be on the controversial use of the video replay, which would likely be applauded by all involved. (I've seen D1 basketball officials go to the courtside monitor for things which aren't permitted by rule, and I've never heard of one of them being punished for it.) I can't imagine that Cleveland would protest and try to have the perfect game nixed. The bad PR would be overwhelming. The rule would also likely be modified somehow, perhaps by including a safe or out call which would end a game.

[grunewar]

Leyland said the umpire's call was part of the "human element of the game" and did not think it constituted a case for the use of replay.

"I'm sure somebody is going to say, 'if we had replay on that play, that kid would have a perfect game.' Somebody will say something about that, but not me," Leyland said. "That's the human element. Umpires do a great job. There's no question about that. They're a whole lot right more than they are wrong. They make some unbelievable calls on bang-bang plays."

Entire article is at:

Missed call leaves Detroit's Armando Galarraga one out shy of perfect game - Daily Pitch: MLB News, Standings, Schedules & More - USATODAY.com

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This may not be a popular sentiment, but what if the crew chief had taken the extraordinary step of going to the video replay despite the rules stating that this isn't a reviewable play? Basically, given the circumstances, just do it anyway and say the heck with it.

He could learn two things:
1. the 1BU got the call right. Then he knows that they didn't ruin a perfect game, and he takes a fine or a couple game suspension. Given the circumstances, he would be likely to get a great deal of support from the players, managers, fans, and analysts. It might even lead to a rule change.

2. the 1BU kicked the call. The change could be made with certainty and instead of the 1BU getting blasted and possibly ruining his career, the focus would be on the controversial use of the video replay, which would likely be applauded by all involved. (I've seen D1 basketball officials go to the courtside monitor for things which aren't permitted by rule, and I've never heard of one of them being punished for it.) I can't imagine that Cleveland would protest and try to have the perfect game nixed. The bad PR would be overwhelming. The rule would also likely be modified somehow, perhaps by including a safe or out call which would end a game.

Well, first off, he'd likely lose his job... and second, it would be protestable. MLB rules are very clear about what's allowed and what's not. This would be no different than an umpire going to ask a fan what they saw and changing his call accordingly.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This may not be a popular sentiment, but what if the crew chief had taken the extraordinary step of going to the video replay despite the rules stating that this isn't a reviewable play? Basically, given the circumstances, just do it anyway and say the heck with it.

He could learn two things:
1. the 1BU got the call right. Then he knows that they didn't ruin a perfect game, and he takes a fine or a couple game suspension. Given the circumstances, he would be likely to get a great deal of support from the players, managers, fans, and analysts. It might even lead to a rule change.

2. the 1BU kicked the call. The change could be made with certainty and instead of the 1BU getting blasted and possibly ruining his career, the focus would be on the controversial use of the video replay, which would likely be applauded by all involved. (I've seen D1 basketball officials go to the courtside monitor for things which aren't permitted by rule, and I've never heard of one of them being punished for it.) I can't imagine that Cleveland would protest and try to have the perfect game nixed. The bad PR would be overwhelming. The rule would also likely be modified somehow, perhaps by including a safe or out call which would end a game.

Basketball official here...I'm a bit surprised that you would advocate this route. You are usually one who is a stickler for following the rules.

Already hearing about it on sports talk radio and ESPN non stop. Many think this will be THE impetus for expanding replay (and if they did it, I would totally be in favor for it). Even heard calls for Bud Selig to retroactively declare the out and award the perfect game. I find that one a little less likely to happen.