Joyce misses one

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by robbie

Um - watch the replay again. Good call. My son and I both instantly said "out" when seeing the first shot in real time. However, we both just as quickly said "wow - good call" when seeing the other angle slow motion replay. First baseman did not have control.

Gee, even Jim Joyce doesn't agree with you.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...fect-game.html



But thanks for playing.....

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm not a baseball umpire. I frequent two other forums on this board.

I would like the opinions of the experts here on these points:

1. The ball was not caught cleanly. It hits the heel of the glove and rolls forward to the fingertips. You can see it at the tip of the glove and then Galarraga flips his wrist to roll it in more securely after the call is made. I wonder if the umpire had him bobbling the ball. Will the pitcher say that he didn't quite have control? (ESPN phone interview with him right now! Galarraga says he does know what the umpire saw. Didn't mention a bobble. He said that he did speak with Joyce after the game.)

2. Due to the manner in which the ball was caught, there probably wasn't a solid pop sound made when the throw reached the glove, plus the crowd would have been fairly loud. I'm told that on close plays at 1st the umpires sometimes watch for the foot hitting the base and listen for the ball hitting the glove. The lack of a pop sound could have tricked Joyce.


He turned gave a wry smile and let it go. He was very classy.

Since the umpire apologized to the Tigers for missing the call your questions are moot.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm not a baseball umpire. I frequent two other forums on this board.

I would like the opinions of the experts here on these points:

1. The ball was not caught cleanly. It hits the heel of the glove and rolls forward to the fingertips. You can see it at the tip of the glove and then Galarraga flips his wrist to roll it in more securely after the call is made. I wonder if the umpire had him bobbling the ball. Will the pitcher say that he didn't quite have control? (ESPN phone interview with him right now! Galarraga says he does know what the umpire saw. Didn't mention a bobble. He said that he did speak with Joyce after the game.)

2. Due to the manner in which the ball was caught, there probably wasn't a solid pop sound made when the throw reached the glove, plus the crowd would have been fairly loud. I'm told that on close plays at 1st the umpires sometimes watch for the foot hitting the base and listen for the ball hitting the glove. The lack of a pop sound could have tricked Joyce.


He turned gave a wry smile and let it go. He was very classy.

Not from what I heard, he said that he simply thought the runner "beat the throw" so he did not and probably could not have seen the bobble from his angle.

This is a tough call because you don't have the best angle, I would think he would have moved a step or so more to his right, but I've also seen MLB guys stay right on the line for this type of throw.

Bottom line, in this type of situation, the umpire should give any doubt to the pitcher, just as you will with a Derek Jeter type throw at ss when he's in left field or a third baseman making a great bare handed throw on the run.

I feel for the guy, he's not going to be able to live that one down for a while.

Thansk
David

[bainsey]

I'm not a baseball umpire, either, but may I ask this question?

If Mr. Joyce felt that the ball was not caught cleanly, could the official scorebook be changed to E1, thereby becoming a no-hitter?

[jimpiano]

“I just cost that kid a perfect game,” Joyce said. “I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay.”

“It was the biggest call of my career,” said Joyce, who became a full-time major league umpire in 1989.

[johnnyg08]

Is there another game there tomorrow? He's got the dish. Should be interesting if they're in Detroit.

[comical]

Detroit plays Cleveland again. I think it's a 1:05 Eastern start in Detroit.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

“I just cost that kid a perfect game,” Joyce said. “I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay.”

“It was the biggest call of my career,” said Joyce, who became a full-time major league umpire in 1989.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Since the umpire apologized to the Tigers for missing the call your questions are moot.

Sorry, Jim, but in light of these comments from the umpire my 2nd question certainly is NOT moot.

[rpumpire]

So, if you're MLB, do you rush in a replacement (as they do for doubleheaders) and give Joyce they day off tomorrow, or does he get "back on the horse" and face the hostile crowd?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Since the umpire apologized to the Tigers for missing the call your questions are moot.

And if Nevada had that particular bit of information available to him, he would not have taken the time to ask the questions he did in his coherent well written post now would he?
It's easy to be the smartest guy in the room when you already have the answers in advance.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by rpumpire

So, if you're MLB, do you rush in a replacement (as they do for doubleheaders) and give Joyce they day off tomorrow, or does he get "back on the horse" and face the hostile crowd?

He'll be working tomorrow.

[robbie]

I give Joyce credit for not using the replay to say that he thought it was a bobble called safe. He stood by what led him to his call (incorrectly thinking that the throw beat the runner.) However, that doesn't negate the fact that it was a bobble. Pretty clear in the video referenced earlier in this thread.

If the call were "out" and it cost a victory, everyone would point to the bobble and scream for blood. Just because the call cost a piece of history, you dont give it the ol' in the neighborhood, or close enough call.

[rpumpire]

From mlb.com:

"I just cost that kid a perfect game," Joyce said. "I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay. It was the biggest call of my career."

Galarraga said he gave Joyce a hug when Joyce apologized to him after the game.

"He really feels bad," Galarraga said. "He probably feels more bad than me. Nobody is perfect. I give a lot of credit to that guy. That (an apology) doesn't happen. He apologized. He feels really bad. Nobody is perfect. What am I gonna do? His body language said more than a lot of words. His eyes were watery, he didn't have too say much. His body language said a lot."

Galarraga retired Trevor Crowe to preserve the shutout, but Tigers players Gerald Laird and Jeremy Bonderman took a detour from the postgame celebration to have words with Joyce, as did manager Jim Leyland.

"That's the nature of the business, that's just the way it is. The players are human, the umpires are human, the managers are human, the writers are human," Leyland said. "We all make mistakes. It's a crying shame. Jimmy's a real good umpire, has been for a long time. He probably got it wrong."

----------

Joyce and Galarraga both showed tons of class in the way they handled an unfortunate situation.

[DG]

Originally Posted by qcumpire

At the risk of being abused by my fellow officials for supporting instant replay. I am watching the Stanley Cup Finals and there was a replay that awarded a goal correctly. This is an example of how instant replay can work(only at the major league level). I say give the Major league managers one challenge during a game. If they are wrong on the challenge, they go bye-bye.

I think this will generate substantial discussion about additional instant replay. We already have for border HR calls. This would certainly fall into a category of potentially reviewable. My goodness, a perfect game gone on the last out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by robbie

I give Joyce credit for not using the replay to say that he thought it was a bobble called safe. He stood by what led him to his call (incorrectly thinking that the throw beat the runner.) However, that doesn't negate the fact that it was a bobble. Pretty clear in the video referenced earlier in this thread.

If the call were "out" and it cost a victory, everyone would point to the bobble and scream for blood. Just because the call cost a piece of history, you dont give it the ol' in the neighborhood, or close enough call.

Paging Mr. Freud...