Bob Davidson

[BaBa Booey]

A balk is not the same as a force play at first. A balk is supposed to be seen by everyone and called by everyone, which is why they teach you to echo the call. Strength in numbers. None of this "I'll take no-stops and double sets, you take knee-buckles, etc" nonsense. If you don't echo it, it looks like you didn't see it, which makes the manager think "what the hell did that other guy see??" You echo it, and then your partner is supposed to either intercept the manager coming out or just answer the question before it is asked by yelling out "He didn't stop, Mike!" or whatever the case may be. You cover him, he covers you.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

If I echo a balk call that I didn't see, and the coach comes to me to explain, what will I tell him?
If I see the balk but my partner beats me to the call, I echo it. If I don't see it, I don't echo it.

JJ

I've heard other umpires in my assoc say the same thing. I always ask them ... so if you echo calls that you see and agree with, but don't echo if you see the situation but don't agree with ... aren't you tipping off the other team that at least one of the umpires disagreed with the initial call?

To my mind, and as I've been trained, in baseball, softball, and football - echoing is almost ALWAYS a bad thing. The only things that should be echoed are things that stop play (dead ball, foul ball, a whistle in football - and even there there's not 100% agreement, etc) and even then, you're only echoing the fact that the ball is dead, not the call itself.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BaBa Booey

your partner is supposed to either intercept the manager coming out or just answer the question before it is asked by yelling out "He didn't stop, Mike!"

Ah ... thanks. Now I KNOW you aren't an umpire. When I see an umpire yelling across the field at someone, I know they really have no idea what they are doing. Who is this "THEY" that is teaching you such nonsense?

I'm done.

[BaBa Booey]

You can think what you want. Anyone who has been to PBUC, the Evans 5 week school or any of Jim's clinics has been taught this very procedure.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I've heard other umpires in my assoc say the same thing. I always ask them ... so if you echo calls that you see and agree with, but don't echo if you see the situation but don't agree with ... aren't you tipping off the other team that at least one of the umpires disagreed with the initial call?

Reread my OP. I didn't say I DISAGREED with my partner's call - I said I won't echo the call if I didn't SEE the balk. I have worked with partners who have called balks, and after the game we've discussed it, and I may have disagreed with his call, but that's not why I didn't echo it. Obviously, if I don't see what he sees I'm not calling the balk. Or echoing it.
And some coaches will ALWAYS use the line "Your partner didn't call it - HE didn't think it was a balk." As with all baseball comments, I consider the source.

JJ

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

Reread my OP. I didn't say I DISAGREED with my partner's call - I said I won't echo the call if I didn't SEE the balk. I have worked with partners who have called balks, and after the game we've discussed it, and I may have disagreed with his call, but that's not why I didn't echo it. Obviously, if I don't see what he sees I'm not calling the balk. Or echoing it.
And some coaches will ALWAYS use the line "Your partner didn't call it - HE didn't think it was a balk." As with all baseball comments, I consider the source.

JJ

I guess I took you to mean that if you didn't see the balk, you wouldn't echo it. MEANING that if you saw the pitcher but DIDN'T SEE A BALK, you wouldn't echo it. Apparently that's not what you meant.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You're kidding right? He started his leg motion to pitch, and then stopped and stepped off.

He was not in a set position. He was not beginning a pitch from that position.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by BaBa Booey

And only Bob knows what Bob was doing, but if any of you out there are telling yourselves that you've never looked away momentarily during a live ball situation, you're flat out lying. Everyone has done it.

This.