Ozzie's at it again.....

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mike & Steve,

As has been said, "Never argue with an idiot. He will simply drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience."

I fear your missives will neither enlighten, chasten, nor subdue Mr. Passan. He's a self-important gasbag with an oversized ego that will only be fed by your attention.

I wouldn't have bothered.

JM

+1
He may even understand and agree with everything you say, but that's not good copy. He's just an entertainer, trying to entertain.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Welpe

He was telling Ozzie not to come out to argue the balk. That is pretty common in the bigs.

So he had to do it that demonstratively? Can't he just wait for Ozzie to get out there and say "Hey Ozzie, it's not worth arguing, go back and sit down"?

Apparently not, and I think that was part of the reason he got fined.

[UMP25]

I'm no fan at all of Ozzie, but telling him to "get the f--k off the field" isn't exactly very professional.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Apparently not, and I think that was part of the reason he got fined.

That is a big assumption, especially when you see numerous MLB umpires doing it. It is accepted at that level.

I think he got fined for making comments to the media.

UMP25, West said he didn't tell Ozzie that so somebody is lying.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I'm no fan at all of Ozzie, but telling him to "get the f--k off the field" isn't exactly very professional.

I wouldn't believe Ozzie if he said the sky was blue.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is a big assumption, especially when you see numerous MLB umpires doing it. It is accepted at that level.

I think he got fined for making comments to the media.

UMP25, West said he didn't tell Ozzie that so somebody is lying.

Regardless of how many umpires do it, it still looks really unprofessional and immature. I know managers aren't allowed to argue judgement calls, but the way West did it was wrong, IMO

[JJ]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Distance from front-center pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate: 60' 6"
Distance from back corner of home plate to back corner of first base: 90'
Distance from front-center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 63' 8 5/8"

Angle at home plate formed by foul line and line directly to center of pitcher's plate: 45 degrees
Angle formed by foul line and line from back corner of first to front center of pitcher's plate: 42.2 degrees
Angle formed by lines from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate & from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 92.8 degrees

So I guess its more like stepping to the 46.4.

I knew that. Really.
JJ

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Regardless of how many umpires do it, it still looks really unprofessional and immature. I know managers aren't allowed to argue judgement calls, but the way West did it was wrong, IMO

Are you talking about the stop sign West gave him? Because that action is pretty much accepted in many circles of baseball. And it is really acceptable in basketball which you officiate. Not saying it works, but it is advocated a lot. I just came back from basketball camp and this was talked about all the time. I think you would be in the minority if you consider this unprofessional.

Peace

[Altor]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Exactly why are you qualified to make the decision as to who he can talk to? Within the bounds of his contract, he can talk to whoever he wants. He has just as much right to discuss this call with the radio as Ozzie and Mark did with the TV.

Am I qualified? Probably as much as anybody with an officiating license. Is it my decision to make? Certainly not. However, I'm taking the fine as vindication that those that do make that decision share my opinion. It's not about baseball...I specifically said I didn't care about the balks or the ejections. It's not about employment contracts or freedom of speech. It's about how officials should conduct themselves both on and off the field. It's about a social contract with his fellow umpires. As a fellow official (even if it is a different sport), I fail to see how my opinion is completely worthless in this area.

West's off-field actions (and those of his PR person) are what drives the comments from the rats of "injected himself into the game" and "wanted to sell more CDs." Let me be clear...I'm not defending those comments. They're pure BS AFAIC. But, Joe doesn't help himself or his fellow umpires when he seeks out the media outlets afterward.

Perhaps you'd feel better if I made it a hypothetical instead of calling out Joe West specifically. So here goes. If one of the officials in my association went seeking attention from the media after making a non-controversial call (from the officials' perspective) that was made controversial by the coaches, players, and media; there would be a major fecal-storm at our next meeting.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Altor

Perhaps you'd feel better if I made it a hypothetical instead of calling out Joe West specifically. So here goes. If one of the officials in my association went seeking attention from the media after making a non-controversial call (from the officials' perspective) that was made controversial by the coaches, players, and media; there would be a major fecal-storm at our next meeting.

Bad comparison. Someone like Joe West is not likely in your association; consider that your association is not Major League Baseball affiliated. As someone said MLB Crew Chiefs can speak to the media. And this has not been the first time this season in about a week, let alone this year. When Bob Davidson threw out the batter from Tampa Bay, the crew chief spoke on the matter to the media. You need to find another example.

Peace

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Are you talking about the stop sign West gave him? Because that action is pretty much accepted in many circles of baseball. And it is really acceptable in basketball which you officiate. Not saying it works, but it is advocated a lot. I just came back from basketball camp and this was talked about all the time. I think you would be in the minority if you consider this unprofessional.

Peace

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CWS@CLE: Ozzie is ejected for arguing a balk call - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

There's a stop sign at about :47 seconds, and then there's not one, but two "shoo-aways" at about the 1:00 mark.

Two very different things, IMO.

[JRutledge]

I do not completely disagree with you. But this is the pros. These individuals know and work together for years. I am sure Joe West did Ozzie's games most of his career. These guys have a different set of standards. And we also do not know the interaction. Keep in mind there are probably a few f-bombs being thrown at each other too.

Peace

[grunewar]

The video and description seem to follow what West said in the below interview:

Originally Posted by bas2456

There's a stop sign at about :47 seconds, and then there's not one, but two "shoo-aways" at about the 1:00 mark.

West, On ejecting Ozzie Guillen:

“Ozzie came out to protect his pitcher, which was probably a good idea at the time because Buehrle was drawing lines in the dirt on the mound and he was about to get ejected then. He even said that he was out there not to argue the balk, but to protect his pitcher. He should come out in that situation. I told him, ‘Everything is OK now Ozzie, you can go back to the dugout.’ He got mad because I told him to go back. And he used a couple profanity laced lines. And that got him ejected. But it was actually not as blown up as it looks like on television. It was kind of funny that he had a tirade at the end of the game because he didn’t actually didn’t say exactly what happened out there.“

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not completely disagree with you. But this is the pros. These individuals know and work together for years. I am sure Joe West did Ozzie's games most of his career. These guys have a different set of standards. And we also do not know the interaction. Keep in mind there are probably a few f-bombs being thrown at each other too.

Peace

If you want to see F-Bombs flying, check out the video of Tim Tschida ejecting Joe Maddon. There looked to plenty of them.