Pitching from the stretch

[Jay R]

Question; OBR. Can a pitcher from the stretch have both hands together while taking the sign? Pitcher tonight was taking his sign with his hands together then bringing his hands closer to his body and pausing. Is this legal?

[UmpTTS43]

No he cannot. This is considered a set position. During the stretch, his pitching hand must be at his side or behind him.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

No he cannot. This is considered a set position. During the stretch, his pitching hand must be at his side or behind him.

The stretch is the set position.

Why would it be illegal to take the sign after the pitcher's hands come together?

I can see a balk for a pause in motion, but that's about it.

[stratref]

As described it is a balk for starting and stopping.

Once the hands are together and the pitcher stops moving/pauses, the pitcher is considered set. Any movement after that point must be a pitch (excluding such things as a throw to first).

The OP described a pitcher getting set, then moving to re-set, that would be a balk for the re-set or start and stop, however you would like to describe it.
There is nothing preventing a pitcher from getting set and then taking their sign. However it doesn't sound smart because any obvious adjustment at that point would be a balk. And it would take nerves of steal not to move for such a long time after taking each sign.

Jasper

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

The stretch is the set position.

Why would it be illegal to take the sign after the pitcher's hands come together?

I can see a balk for a pause in motion, but that's about it.

It sounds like from the OP that the pitcher started out with his hands together, and then made a double set, which is indeed a balk. I don't think UmpTTS43 was referring to taking the signs with his hands together, he was actually referring to the pitcher being set and then moving his hands closer to his body and resetting.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Jay R

Question; OBR. Can a pitcher from the stretch have both hands together while taking the sign? Pitcher tonight was taking his sign with his hands together then bringing his hands closer to his body and pausing. Is this legal?

If you believe it is an attempt to deceive the runner, then it may have been a balk. The pitcher cannot step onto the rubber with his hands together. His movement may have been unorthodox, but it is not a balk simply because the movement was an "unusual or unnatural" motion.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

No he cannot. This is considered a set position. During the stretch, his pitching hand must be at his side or behind him.

OBR "Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher SHALL, have his one hand on his side; from this position he SHALL go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01 (b) without interuption and in one continuous motion"

"The pitcher following his stretch MUST........b. come to a complete stop."

I don't have a balk here, as long as that pause is really a complete stop.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

OBR "Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher SHALL, have his one hand on his side; from this position he SHALL go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01 (b) without interuption and in one continuous motion"

"The pitcher following his stretch MUST........b. come to a complete stop."

I don't have a balk here, as long as that pause is really a complete stop.

It sounds to me like he came set, then got his signs, then came set again. How is this not a balk?

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It sounds like from the OP that the pitcher started out with his hands together, and then made a double set, which is indeed a balk. I don't think UmpTTS43 was referring to taking the signs with his hands together, he was actually referring to the pitcher being set and then moving his hands closer to his body and resetting.

That's what i read from the OP. He started with hands together, got the sign and then went to the set position.

See that a lot in young players, no one has taught them the separate their hands.

Thanks
David

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by David B

That's what i read from the OP. He started with hands together, got the sign and then went to the set position.

See that a lot in young players, no one has taught them the separate their hands.

Thanks
David

This is exactly what was happening. It was a young pitcher and the umpires did not call a balk. However there was some talk in the stands about wether this was actually legal or not.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by David B

That's what i read from the OP. He started with hands together, got the sign and then went to the set position.

See that a lot in young players, no one has taught them the separate their hands.

Thanks
David

If he separates his hands and does not deliver the pitch, it is a balk.

He starts with his hands together implies he balked when he stepped on the rubber. Don't do that.

Now if he brings his hands together legally, ala starting with his hands together, while taking the sign and continues to the set position. Is it a balk?

He may come to a complete stop, take the sign and then proceed with the delivery. He doesn't have to take the signs at all. Who is he deceiving by a small delay in his pitching motion? Let his pitching coach make that decision.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It sounds to me like he came set, then got his signs, then came set again. How is this not a balk?

This is exactly what was happening. It was a young pitcher and the umpires did not call a balk. However there was some talk in the stands about wether this was actually legal or not.

OK Steve, you want to call it a balk, its a balk. He came to a complete stop and evidently deceived NO ONE.

[DG]

Double set = balk. If he is on the rubber, with hands together and completely stopped he is set. If he then moves hands and stops again he has double set. It is irrelevant when he got the sign. The balk is the double set.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

OK Steve, you want to call it a balk, its a balk. He came to a complete stop and evidently deceived NO ONE.

He came set and then made a motion naturally associated with his pitch and failed to make such delivery. Balk OBR 8.05 (a)

We are not required to determine if anyone was deceived, only to enforce the balk rules.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

He came set and then made a motion naturally associated with his pitch and failed to make such delivery. Balk OBR 8.05 (a)

We are not required to determine if anyone was deceived, only to enforce the balk rules.

+1

The criterion of determining whether F1's intent is deception (mentioned in OBR 8.05 but not in FED) is to be employed ONLY when the umpire is in doubt about whether F1 has balked.

In this case, the umpire should be in no doubt whatsoever. Therefore F1's intent is irrelevant.